Episode 30: In Praise of Therapy

>>> Click here to read the computer generated transcript (note that the transcript isn't perfect)

Gabby: Hi friends. Uh, we want to just start out this week's episode with a bit of a trigger warning. Uh, in this episode, Melanie, I share about our own individual journeys with mental health. And as a result, we do share in depth about some topics that could potentially be triggering for some folks like depression, anxiety, and panic attacks. Well, we do also share about how talk therapy has had a profoundly healing impact. On our ability to thrive. We completely understand if some of you find you need to skip this episode. And if that's, you we'll catch up with you next week, otherwise, thanks for being here and we hope you enjoy the summit.

Mel: Welcome back to the making and effort podcast, the podcast where you. Lovely. You get to drop in on a conversation with two friends, discussing all the things that they make an effort with and some of the things they don't. Um, welcome back, everybody. Thanks so much for being here. Hi Gabby. Hi, Mel. How's it going? Yeah, it's going good. First day school here. That's a big, big day, delighted to be able to miss my children. That's how I feel. What a privilege to miss your children. Yeah. You know, remember him, what that feels like. Um, um, they were. They were all buzzing, this boredom. Um, yeah. And

Gabby: how are you? I'm good. We are currently in the pathway of a hurricane as we record this, which basically just means we're getting a ton of rain because we're completely landlocked state over here. Um, it's very cozy. I woke up. It's like dark. No one else was wake. I just like put on my coffee, put on a big jumper, big sweater. Um, and now I'm recording a podcast with one of my best friends. So yeah, it's a good morning. Good morning. That's a

Mel: cozy, delicious morning. That sounds like except for the five, the five o'clock start. No, thank you.

Gabby: Yeah. I like weirdly woke up though. My body was like, I'm ready. So, oh, when you're

Mel: alert and you're bright and we've had some laughs already before

Gabby: we hit record, you know, it's not every week, this hub,

Mel: well, that's more than, and I would ever expect anybody. Gabby: So the subtext there for anyone listening, not always like this same

Mel: vibe every week, but that's okay. Usually it gets, we get like 20 minutes in and out. Okay, here she goes. She's awake. She's ready. She's doing it. Um, oh gosh. Which is absolutely like for real expectable expectable that's not a word expected.

Gabby: I don't know if

Mel: expected, expected, maybe making it a word expectable.

Gabby: You heard it here, first words are welcome.

Mel: Okay. So today we are going to talk a little bit about our experience with therapy. So, um, I think we've probably alluded to the fact that both of us have, have been in therapy, RN therapy and all different forms. Um, At different stages, different episodes in this podcast. And we thought it might be a really, um, helpful thing to, to kind of, I don't know, talk through how that happened for us. Why that, why that was a decision that we took and what, and what that experience has been like for us, especially in light of, you know, inner purity culture episode. We, we definitely. Felt like we S we spent a good bit of time talking about how that was an important, that that would be an important part of unpacking that if the, if purity culture had affected you, um, in different kind of ways. And so we wanted to make sure that we weren't just kind of, I don't know, like.

Gabby: I don't know what the word, what the word is. We don't want to just be like, just be like, you should definitely go to Sacramento without, you know, sharing our own experiences with therapy and why we we've. We love it. And why it's been such a great tool in our own healthy functioning, and being a better person and getting to enjoy life more.

Mel: I have to say, so you and I are both rewatching sex in the city. Yes, we are at the minute from the beginning. And we're roughly around the same episodes or in the same season, I think. And I noticed, I noticed that it's, um, it gets talked about quite a bit in sex and the study, like therapist though, but in

Gabby: a really negative way though.

Mel: Yeah. Awesome. It's in a negative way or in a very kind of like. Oh, my therapist, uh, or like, I don't know, just that real, um, it's a trendy thing almost like was so New York that's so LA to have a therapist, blah, blah, blah. Um, and I just find that really funny because. Hi, how are the kind of view you have that has an ad of go into therapy has changed from kind of this like only the elate or the really kind of high flyer people.

Gabby: So who are really obsessed with themselves? I think that's like another misconception is like, oh, I just need someone to talk about myself with it's like, no.

Mel: Yeah. Like how that, how that kind of concept or like conception has. Has evolved, I guess, to now I think it's much more, it's much more of a talked about thing. It's much more of an accessible thing and lots of ways, um, and really, really worth explaining the realities of that and how it kind of comes to that point. So that's what we want to, that's what we want to do today. Um, and yeah. What about let's, let's just, let's just talk, like, let's just say, I would like to hear a bit more yeah. About your experience and like when you first realized that you wanted to, to kind of go there and, yeah. Gabby: Um, I'm trying to remember if I've shared this story on the podcast before. Um, but I don't think I have, so I was in college the first time that I kind of had a little bit of like, Some mental health issues. Um, I found myself, uh, just having a lot, what I now know to be panic attacks, anxiety attacks, struggling to get out of bed, just wanting to watch TV all the time, losing enjoyment in activities I normally like to do and wondering what was wrong with me. Um, Like at the end, like really, even in some ways it's contemplating substance abuse. Um, basically a lot of the hallmarks of depression, um, that I just didn't know what depression was at the time. And I went for a full year like this and it was a rough old year. Um, as you can imagine, and that summer. It got really bad. Um, I was back home from university, um, working a job where basically it was at the bank. So I worked at Wells Fargo, uh, mortgage, the mortgage. So basically what that means is like every day I got signed into this huge building that was essentially one huge locket, like walk-in vault and yes, the doors were around. Like, it was like a walk-in vault, no windows, nothing fluorescent lights. And basically I would get a list like just pages and pages of tiny, tiny numbers of. Mortgage folders that needed to be pulled from these stacks, like rows and rows of stacks. And the reason I did it is because it was like an incredibly high paying job, obviously, because it's a terrible job. Um, firstly for usually correlate though. No, no, they do not. But I mean for, I mean, I want to say it was like $16 an hour back in like 2009. So. That w for a college student that was ma mega. Um, so I like was in this vault for the first half of the summer. Just getting more and more depressed and alone in my thoughts because I was just in a window. So this room and that's a metaphor

Mel: for mental stats.

Gabby: Wow. Yeah. And one day during my lunch break, I went outside and it was just like, I don't even know how to explain it. It was like, just like. I remember, I even remember during that time wa watching a commercial for an antidepressant and the woman was like, she was gray, but like walking around in a color, like color, colorful scenery and being like, That's me. This is how I feel, but anyway, I still didn't have like language for it and I still didn't know what depression was or even, yeah, I don't know. And I remember going out for my lunch break, calling my friend and just being like, I am not okay. I don't know what's going on. I just can't function like all this stuff. And because she had been in therapy for a few years before that she was. I am pretty sure you're depressed. She's like, you know what I'm going to do. If it's okay with you, I'm going to call my therapist. He's going to give you a call. We're going to get you booked in today. And I was like, yeah, I want that. And so he gave me a call. He's like, why don't you come in for an assessment? Literally that week I went in for an assessment. Um, I took it. I got the results the next day they were, he was like you a severely depressed. Um, and I really highly recommend you start by quitting your job if you can afford to do so. Really. Wow. And so I did and started therapy and it was the best decision. It really was the best decision. And I can talk more about that. Um, but ever since then, no one has ever needed to talk me into. Going to see a therapist when things get hard. And I'm so grateful for the role that all of my therapists have played in my life, you know?

Mel: Wow. That was an amazing friend. What a good

Gabby: friend she's continues to be Bethany shut up to Bethany. Bethany. What about you? What about you?

Mel: Hmm. So I have not, I only started to go into therapy, uh, last year, last year. Yeah. Um, and I think I probably knew that I needed to go to therapy for a good two years before that, um, kind of just continued to just. I think that I would, I would be able to, I would be fine. And I don't, you know, I think that, you know, obviously my mom's death had a massive impact, um, and probably more, more than I even realized on my body and had an impact on how it, how it was showing up in my body. And I first came. Recognize the signs of, I guess like experiencing trauma and it kind of showing up in my body and letting me know that it was not okay. Was three panic, panic attacks. So I had my first, first ever panic attack. I don't know if I've talked about this in the podcast either. I don't know, but I had my first ever panic attack on the London underground. Oh, no. Yes. Oh God. Um, so Dave and I had been given a lovely gift voucher for one of our favorite hotels. So we take hotel in London and decided to go away for anniversary. Um, and we were having such a lovely time and, um, we were on the underground and I just felt like. I was going to die. Oh my gosh, I had this, uh, you know, like, I don't know if you have experienced a panic attack, you will absolutely know what I mean. Um, when I try to articulate Hyatt fails, but it was as though, like my heart was racing, my, my head was. Like, I just felt so lightheaded and I was hot to hot, hot, and wanted to, like, I felt like I couldn't get air. I wanted to rip my clothes off and like run away. And I just like had all of these intrusive thoughts of like, I'm never getting out of this under grind. I'm, I'm trapped. I felt, you know, and I'm, you know, I, hopefully this isn't too triggering when I explain this and we'll, we'll put a little trigger board in at the beginning of this episode, but, um, you know, like I just, it was nothing like I'd ever experienced before this feeling. And I. I remember, like we ha I told you I was like, we have to get off of the next stop and we go over the next stop. And I practically run up the stairs out of the underground station and just like to get into the fresh air in the open. Was just like the biggest relief. It didn't subside completely, but it just, I was what I first thought it was, was claustrophobia. Cause they would be quite claustrophobic anyway. Um, but that, so I kind of put it down to that a little bit fan, but then it started happening more frequently back when we got home. So. It would happen, like just really, really randomly and to like totally take me out. Um, like I remember one night in particular where I was putting ADA to bed or putting the kids to bed or something and just failing this overwhelming sense of fear and doom. I like, it was mixed with a little bit of like, um, health anxiety also. Like there's. There's something wrong with my, with me, like there's my heart or something. Go on with my heart. Am I going to have a heart attack? Is this, you know? And I remember Dave, like I just slid up against the wall, like slid down the wall in our bedroom and just sat there and couldn't just could not get my mind to stop racing on my body to stop. Like I've just felt so out of control. Um, Uh, you know, I remember even thinking, I don't know if I'll see my kids again after tonight, like I, that mill feeling, but, and I know I can say that night and know, oh my goodness, that was completely like, I, you know, like hugely access, you know, exacerbated in my mind at that time. But at the time it felt real. I was just like, What if I die, what if I die? Um, and so I think lots of, lots of those things pointed towards, okay. Your body is really, really trying to tell you some stuff here, Mel. Um, it's, it's really time that you, you didn't ignore that. So that ended up in. I went to the doctor, told them that, you know, I was still half thinking. There was something wrong with my heart because this kept happening. Like one night I even ended up with the like art of ours doctor at like midnight or something after having a panic attack and like was convinced, there was like, I was like, you need to check my heart. There's something wrong. Um, and you know, I was prescribed something. Um, like blood center medication and, um, uh, anti-anxiety medication. Um, and I think at that time I was still like, okay, well, if I do, if I do have another one, I have this medication, I can take it and that will help me, but I still wasn't like right. Yeah. Running to the therapist. Yeah. You do any kind of talk therapy proactively. So it took another year for me to really realize that that would be. Helpful. Yeah, no, that, that was, that was going to be helpful. Um, yeah, so that's, that's kind of the origins of how that Nia came a bite. Um, and, and I've been working with my therapist for, you know, almost a year and I am having a lovely time,

Gabby: lovely time

Mel: having a lovely time. Yeah, she is wonderful. You know, and I think, I don't know, like you, you had a recommendation from a friend. I had a recommendation from a friend who is a therapist, but I particularly, I think I have enough people that have been to therapy or are therapists in my orbit that I, I kinda knew a little bit about what kinds of therapy there were. I could, uh, could start to narrow down the type that I was really looking for. So I definitely knew that I wanted to talk to somebody who. Like L like connected with the body as well as the mind, um, was, was quite cause that felt like such a big component to showing up for me. So, um, the kind of therapist that I talk to is an AEDP therapy. Okay. I don't know, actually know what that means. Um, so a D P. Is, I'm going to just give you a little readout description of that. So it is accelerated experiential dynamic psychotherapy. So, um, it is a form of psychotherapy. Um, yeah, so it's like quite an in-depth processing of relationships and experiences and, um, Techniques and stuff like that. So, yeah. Yeah.

Gabby: I think that's a great point about like, if you're wondering how to find a therapist and you might like want to try going to therapy, honestly, just asking your friends is a great place to start and from my experience anyway, and then usually even if, you know, you know, say you're not. You don't want to go to the person they recommend or the clinic that they recommend. Um, every single time I've like, you know, reached out and been like, Hey, do you have any recommendations for therapists who work with this type of thing? Usually clinics and therapists are more than happy to recommend. Other people in my experience. So, you know, um, you can breathe, you can even just say like, you know, I'm really looking to work with someone who has experience in like grief and loss or through divorce or, you know, whatever it is. Um, and usually you don't have to find someone who specializes in those things for it to be. You know, uh, effective in my opinion. However, sometimes it just helps narrow it down, I think. Um, cause it can be a bit overwhelming and. Um, yeah, I don't know. That's my advice for finding a therapist.

Mel: Yeah. Yeah. I think my, for sure has been, um, speaking to like trusted people who know their stuff, you know, like, um, who I would absolutely love to be my therapist that I could work. Good friends. Um, yeah. But, um, getting their recommendation because they maybe know me or whatever, but, um, but yeah, so that's been, um, My experience with therapy and, you know, do you have, and I have done some stuff together, uh, with the therapist have been, uh, you know, and really got a lot out of that. And I think that's, it's really important to also mention like my, you know, it, it doesn't, you don't have to be at crisis point either to, to benefit from. Uh, a nurturing space where you really get to. Kind of say what you need to say, process what you need to process with somebody whose, whose only job like this is what is so beautiful by therapy is their only job is to lessen and hold space for you. Kind of know, like they're absolutely in your corner. Yeah. He has no other agenda to push. They are not in a dynamic relationship with you that requires a push and pole. Like there is no dynamic within that relationship that is. Not for you, right? Yeah. And to me that is just like, where else do you get that? It's like, everything else comes with some sort of like the near of, um, even the best intentions of the agenda, you know, like, um, or concern or whatever. But this is just so lace, it's so special and like, I've really such a deep respect for therapists and what they do and how they do it because, um, I'm too judgmental to be a therapist. Oh yeah. I

Gabby: mean, this is the thing is like, you know, I've definitely heard, well, I've got really great friends, so I don't need a therapist and you might have really great friends. This is true. But so we have a good friend who is just finishing up her therapy course. And when I get to here, like little windows into the amount of work and like research and practice that she goes through to have the job that she has. I'm like your friends aren't doing that. Like there's just another layer of, um, just knowledge and. Uh, I think even to just, I know with the therapists that I have, have, have had, there's something I've always found really comforting where I'm like, there's nothing they haven't seen. Right. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's this level of not going to shock you here. You're never, you're not going to go home to your partner. Or, you know, or husband or wife or whatever, and be like, oh my goodness, don't tell anyone, but you'll never guess what so-and-so said or which, you know, it's, it's fine. There's like, there's just none of that. Uh, usually a wealth of information, a wealth of knowledge, a very holistic approach to kind of providing support. And yeah, like you said, there's just no agenda except for being on your team, which is a really amazing, oh man, totally. You know, a healing space in and of itself. On its own.

Mel: Absolutely. Maybe we should also say that our friend Michelle, who's just about to qualify as a therapist. Michelle is, um, um, I'm running this retreat retreat with an October. Um, So exciting, but like, you know, she's going to be open for clients saying, you know, like if you want,

Gabby: let you go to Michelle, I would do it in a heartbeat. I know

Mel: they like just the best, best therapist, so many people. Um, but yeah, that, that space where. It's just for you. It's just not, there's just nothing like that, you know? And yeah. And it's, it's just so funny, your expectations of what it will be. Um, And what it is, you know, as well. Yeah. Some things that I find really interested in about that dynamic T and that I'm so used to being on the other side of those kinds of conversations. So it was like, as a coach, a lot of my work is holding space for women on there. The S the struggles that they're facing, not in a therapeutic way, although there is something therapeutic about it, for sure. Um, and I, I hold that responsibility very, um, like I, I find that to be a big responsibility and I take it seriously. Um, But I'm so used to be on the other side of those kinds of conversations. That it's, it really unnerved me to begin with when I first started where I was like,

Gabby: so how are you? You know,

Mel: how's your weight pain, you got kids oh my goodness. Where? Or, or even stuff like something that was. Uh, unnerving for me is the site in therapy often, you know, like therapists, so not uncomfortable with the space and I, and just life in general, I find that a really hard thing to get used to, and to develop, to, to develop comfort and. And kind of that white space or that like just setting in the, in each other's presence to see what comes up, you know?

Gabby: Yeah. Oh, I will never forget as I'm sorry, I'm just laughing because I remember being in a therapy session with my first therapist Warren, and he was like, you know, I was crying about something and, you know, you think like, not, you'd think in friendships, you know, if you start crying. In a conversation, your friends, like all over you, there's hugs. There's, you know, there's like pet, there's, all the things. Uh, orange just sat there across the room. Just looking at me, had, you know, kind of waiting for me to like compose myself. And he was like, Tell me, where do you think these tears are about?

Mel: And then of course they just cried even harder. I was like, I know, oh, this is so there. And there's so many, like it tactics that you just, I don't know, like I could be quite stubborn too, or. But with, because I know like, I'll maybe say I, there are many sessions for, for me that start with, so my therapist will take me three, kind of like a, getting into my body thing to begin with. So she, she does a lot of breath work with me and a lot of like, Shining a torch inside my body type stuff and, and noticing things or whatever. And then, you know, I opened my eyes and we get ready to kind of start the session and. Often at that point, I'm like, huh, I don't really know what's coming up for me today. I don't really feel like there's anything. And she only has to ask like one question or I only have to say one sentence and she'd be like, huh. Okay. I wonder if he could say a little bit more about. X Y and Zed. And before, you know, it like 50 minutes is up, I have cried or like, right. And I guess there was some stuff there that I talk about today.

Gabby: That's how it goes.

Mel: Yeah. And I think that that has been a real, like, um, I think that's been such a big thing. And my experience has been really trusting that the right things that need to come out, that I can, that I can excavate those and that session safely. And that I see that those are the things that need to come up. I can trust myself to bring those up and that she's going to be there to hold those things and, and ask the right questions about those things so that I can process that fully. Um, instead of just kind of. Either like bringing the obvious stuff, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but just like, Nope. Not being afraid to like come out of hiding. I think some of this stuff has been a big, a big lesson for me. Um, and that experience as well. And it is very like that. But the one that the therapy that I do by myself has, is a very led by me, you know? Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. Whereas, you know, some of the stuff that Dave and I have done together has been, obviously, because it's three people in the room or on the, on the call is much more dynamic and like, okay, let's hear, let's hear from Dave we're what do you think of what, what male Santa about this? Or, you know, like it's quite, um, It's a different dynamic as well. So yeah.

Gabby: Yeah. I w I kind of wish we could do like a show of hands too, for people listening to this, like, Who went to therapy in 2020 or received something kind of therapy?

Mel: It's funny

Gabby: because I know I did, like, I dunno, I, I think this year, so I, I hadn't been to a therapist in over 10 years. I definitely should have been before last year. Um, now that I think about it, but I just even think of, you know, some of the tools that I received. Learned and received in those sessions that have really carried me through, carried me through 2020 and into today. Like even just, you know, I like learned how. Important, you know, working out is for my mental health. Um, and that has been a huge revelation in my thirties. Like I would say I pretty much exclusively work out for mental health reasons at this point. Um, otherwise I just get angry. Like I don't have an outlet for all of this energy, um, or, you know, There's just things like that, that you learn because you're always changing. You're always growing the way you responded to something at 20. It might not be how you respond to it when you're 40. Um, and so I just think it's not like therapy. Doesn't have to be like a one and done. You know, I'm fixed now or even like, or even, like you said to your point again, I think it is a great point to reiterate, like you did not have to be in crisis to go to therapy. You can just decide to go.

Mel: Yeah. But stuff will

Gabby: come up. Yeah, definitely. Well, Mel: there's a lot of like, I guess. But I also feel as important to say is that I really understand the resistance, like, oh yeah. You know, there's layers to it for all of us. So if you're someone that's out there and you have kind of toyed with this idea, or you've known that it's time for you to just like, make some space for yourself in that way, like, please do it. Like, please just do it. Um, you, there is no, he will not regret it. No. I don't think he can, if you're, if you're with someone who is professional, obviously, um, you will not regret it and your friends and this, and this is also like coming back to what you said a bit earlier. Like I had, I do every, every month I do like a Q and a session with, in my membership, um, with the women in my membership. And one of the things that came up was recently, it was about. No, I feel like a real drain on my friends. Like I'm, I, you know, with like having to, I don't want to be in the toxic positivity space where I'm denying how I'm feeling, but like it's taking a long time to hate a little from X, Y, and Zed. And I feel like I'm a drain on my friends and, you know, like one of the things that I, I really thought about. When I was talking through that question and unlike a person's experience was that your friends need to remain in that friends, neon area. And it's really. It's really hard for us to have those expectations that they are going to meet our emotional and our hailing Nate's, you know? Yeah. Same, same goes for a partner. Same goes for, you know, a parent, all of those things. Like they are not, that's not the assignment that they've been given in our lives. Um, they are grit signed in boards, their grit for, you know, you should be able to be yourself with your friends, but in order to. Menttium healthy friendships. I think we have to make sure that we're not assigning our friends to the role of therapists. Um, and we're, um, we're leaving that to the people who are qualified and professional and have room for that. Yeah. You know, um, as well. So I get the resistance, but yeah. I guess the inclination to hope that good, solid friendships that are understanding and mutual and loving that are going to provide that space. But it just often, it just often isn't going to cut. Isn't going to cut it nor should it. No, that's so true. I, um,

Gabby: Yeah, I think that is so, so wise and so true and, and edit. It just allows you to be a healthier friend to a better friend. I mean, in my experience, you know, all of my therapy has made me a more compassionate person. And I think that, you know, that in and of itself is. Worth something, you know, because the world can make is so primed to like, make you not that way. You know, there's so much that can kind of harden you and I just think it's good to say good to stay soft when you can.

Mel: Yeah. I mean, that's hugely true. And that also. Not contrary to that, but also what I believe is in addition to that is therapy therapy has really given me a sense of autonomy to create injuries in my life as well. You know, like, which are loving because poetry's are so loving, like that is having good boundaries for yourself is one of the, you know, in, in your relationship. So then your work and your family and all of that kind of stuff. Such as one of the best ways that you can love other people really well. Yeah. You know, upholding those things that you want to be loyal to yourself a about, um, and therapist, for sure. Given me a lot of permission to do that and to evaluate reevaluate those things. Um, I'm interested to know. I'm interested to know if there is any type of therapy that you are like interested in exploring, because I don't know about you, but I have find, like, I feel like I'm a little bit of a. Uh, therapy junkie noise, the Salem, like T if we should go to therapy and talk to people, and now I am, you know, like there's other types of therapy that I hear about and I'm like, Ooh, I'd like to try that. Or I'd like to know more about that. I wonder what that could do for me. Um, is there anything for you that. Hmm, kind of picked your interests or your thinking. Yeah. Um,

Gabby: so to come to mind immediately, one that I just heard about for the first time through Michelle is ecotherapy, which is like using nature and the natural world. I think maybe I'm defining this wrong. So, correct me if I am in the therapy process. Um, as part of your healing, which sounds so I already find nature, incredibly healing and such a catharsis for me. Um, so I can only imagine that it, when you marry therapy, structured therapy with that, that it's not like absolutely mind blowing. Um, the other one that I actually have been prescribed to do, and just with all of the quarantine and all of the. Craziness of the last year and a half, just have not gotten a chance to do yet, but I probably will is EMDR, which, um, I don't actually know what it stands for, but I will do like a really quick explanation of it as I understand it. And I probably will get corrected online and that's okay too. Uh, so Google, it just. So

Mel: she'll notice sounds for

Gabby: sure. Listen, what stands Mel: for NDR stands for eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing therapy, eye movement, desensitization, desensitization, and reprocessing therapy.

Gabby: So I don't mind sharing that. I had a very traumatic birthing experience. And a lot of times these, this type of therapy is used when you have like trauma in the body. Um, because it is like a physical way of processing your trauma. Um, like, so I, from what I understand of it, it's like the therapist will take you through certain movements and like, um, Exercises while you process kind of talk through some of the things that you experienced. Um, and, but in doing so kind of work out some of the trauma that's like stored up in your body, um, actually going on and in a very non-professional way, like going on a hike and talking with friends is like a low key level. Like if you had a really good conversation with your. Friend or your spouse or whoever, like on a run or on a hike that's kind of low key EMDR. Cause you're like working through stuff as you're physically moving through it. It's not actually, I don't, don't actually quote me on that, but like that is kind of yeah. Of what it has as I understand it. And as I was explained to me is one of the benefits of it. And so my therapist last year, Prescribed me to do that and I, um, need to do it and I want to do it. So I'm looking forward to it.

Mel: I have a friend that's done that. That's done EMDR and it was absolutely. Completely life-changing for her. And I think there was something to do with like repetitive movement. Obviously guys, we are not, we do not know things like that. So don't worry.

Gabby: Like this is a, this is a podcast where you get to join in a conversation with two friends who don't know what they're talking about, who

Mel: literally have no idea. If we're saying the right thing about this particular type of therapy, but I think there was something involved in that to do with like topping or like re repetitive movement of the eyes. And going back into the memory, I think is to re reprogram the memory of the trauma, um, is my understanding of EMDR. So I know that it has had massively successful results in inhaling someone. The big kind of traumatic events that people have been through. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Let us know a few, you know? Yeah. Gabby: Decided to time, like all reinspired to like get signed up for that ASAP.

Mel: I'm really interested in, um, Like psychosexual therapy. Ooh, tell me more about that. I don't really know that much about it, but I'm very interested. And especially, even in light of the purity culture stuff that we talked about, and I had several messages from people who have, are going through that kind of therapy themselves, but just I'm really interested in IX. And I think that it's probably the best fit in lots of ways for Hm. Stuff that comes up or impurity culture or our bodies or, um, yeah, that kind of thing. And I'm just really interested in, in, in healthier and healthier if you use of sexuality and, um, on my body and all that kind of stuff. And I think. Yeah, I'm really interested. Cause I know that there are some really knowledgeable people out there who you, um, who can, who can really help you, um, just feel more free in the area or field or, um, understand that, that side of it. You're like embodiment a bit more. Like, I think that's what I'm interested is Canada embodiment of that stuff a bit more. So, um, I'd like to, I'd like to have a little dabbles exciting and to what would come up with that.

Gabby: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's good. Well, is there anything else you think we needed to touch on,

Mel: on this topic? Um, yeah, I just think the last thing that I really want to say is to, to talk, to talk to your friends up by therapy. Like I think some, some of the most important conversations that I've had with my friends is our experience of that as well. And just, you know, really de-stigmatizing that the, the need for it, the desire for it, or, um, and, and to. Yeah. Be around people who that fruit for them that feels like they're cheering you on into that. Yeah. That space of really prioritizing your mental health, the way that you would, your physical health and, um, yeah, that's, that's kind of my take. And also I wanted to give a bit of a shout out to my friend. Rachel has a podcast called. And how did that make you feel? Hmm. Uh, she started this, I think, during locked-in. Um, but she, uh, is a big. You know, big, big fan of therapy also, and she thought it would be really cool to talk to other people about their experiences of therapy in order to kind of de-stigmatize or, um, kind of pull the curtain back on other people's expenses. Of of being in therapy as well. And that's really, it's a really funny, lovely podcast. So we'll link to that in the show notes. Um, and Rachel is also from Northern Ireland and she's got a great accent. So you feel, be sure to enjoy that as well.

Gabby: Yeah, that sounds amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

Mel: Go ahead. I mean, just as always, we, you know, like we've given many a disclaimer in this, but, uh, If you want to reach out to us and, and talk and in any way, please know that you're welcome to do that, but also please. No, that we're not therapists. No, we are not. No, but we do. We do, we do love hearing from you. We love getting your emails and your voice notes in your DM. So yeah. Yeah, you're always welcome in our inbox. Thanks so much Gabby for sharing your experience today.

Gabby: Thank you. And we'll see you guys next time.

Mel: See you next time. Bye.