Episode 10: Jealousy and Comparison
This week we’re talking about jealousy and comparison— specifically how it pertains to women because it’s what we have the most experience with. We talk about how we feel like it seems to immobilise or HYPER-mobilise us when we’re faced with feelings of jealousy and comparison.
And ultimately we just think that it’s super common.
There’s empathy for it all!
Mel shares a bit about how she feels like a lot of jealousy and comparison stems from a sense of scarcity and a history of being left out. The stakes are genuinely higher.
We also talk about how it’s so annoying that even though there is a scarcity we also never produce our best work out of that mindset. So how do we get out of that?!?!
We talk about how taking risks is actually how we stretch our wings and gain self-confidence.
Courage love action. We really believe in showing up for yourself and just taking the step to do something you love will build courage. And courage is one of the best antidotes for comparison (we believe!)
The best way to build community and camaraderie, we think, is to do risky things in the company of other women doing risky things and bonding over that experience.
It’s exponentially easier to be brave around other women who are trying to be brave.
Mel mentions Playing Big by Tara Mohr— so check it out if you’re interested! Tara Mohr talks about how feedback only ever tells you about the person giving the feedback, but it doesn’t ever really tell you anything true about you. Good or bad!
Mel also talks about the importance of being willing to do things while you’re still afraid.
Also we’re fascinated about how our Ennegram numbers come into play when it comes to dealing with jealousy and comparison with friends. If you’ve got some fun/interesting insights about how you’ve dealt with this kind of dynamic in your friendships let us know and shoot us an email.
We talk about Brené Brown’s podcast episode with Simon Sinek about how scarcity isn’t real. SO GOOD. Listen to it now! :)
We also talk about Elizabeth Gilbert’s Big Magic and how the world needs to hear your voice.
We hope you enjoyed this week’s episode! Cheers!
>>> Click here to read the computer generated transcript (note that the transcript isn't perfect)
Gabby: Welcome to the making an effort podcast, the podcast where you get to drop in on a conversation with two friends, discussing all the things they make an effort with and some of the things they do not. And today we are talking about jealousy and comparison, and I'm really excited about this topic because it's something that I have personally thought about a lot in my private and professional life. And. I think you've got a lot of experience with as well, Mel. And so I'm just excited to talk about this.
Mel: Yeah, me too. It's I actually think it's one of those subjects that, um, that women. No they experience in particular women. Um, they know that they, that other people experience it. And we just don't really talk about it that much.
Why do you think that?
Gabby: Oh gosh. Why do I think that is? I don't, I don't really know why I think that is. I just think that women are more prone to it. At least that's how it comes across. When I talk to my. Male friends. And when I talked to my female friends, definitely my male friends have thoughts about like, thoughts about compares comparison, but it doesn't seem to be as crippling as it does to.
When I compare it to my female friends, it seems to really do something to women where it like immobilizes them from, from doing anything else or doing anything about it. And I obviously this might not be all women's experience. This is just my own personal experience and the experience that I've had talking to other women.
Mel: Um, I think it. I think it can either like, and mobilize women or hyper. Mobilize us to a whole other level of unhealth. Yeah. Yeah. Which has been my experience personally, and what I've observed and the hundreds of women that I've worked with, which is true. It is hundreds of women and it is so common. Yeah, it's so common.
I have so many, so many big thoughts about it. And the first, the first thing that I want to say actually is that if this is really triggering for you, because you are a jealous person or you find yourself really comparing yourself all the time, um, I want you to know from the outset that this is a place of no sham and we are not.
I actually have bucketfuls of empathy, about the experience of jealousy and comparison that all of us feel, um, in certain levels and degrees because yeah, I think we deserve to have empathy for that because I believe that it's, it's something that we have actually been forced into as women. There, I said it.
Gabby: Whoa. All right. I feel like you needed to just keep talking.
Mel: Oh, I, I think that so much of jealousy and comparison actually stems from scarcity. And I believe that scarcity is something that has been a very, very real thing for women throughout history. That the reality is that we haven't had enough access. We haven't had enough autonomy. We haven't had enough opportunity. Um, and so I feel like jealousy and comparison is a really natural response that is inherited from a whole history of being left out and not having had access.
Gabby: Yeah. That's actually a fantastic point. And I think that. I think I've never, I, for some reason I've never thought of that, but now, even as you say it, like, so my husband's in the, in the music industry and even narrower than that, the Christian music industry, and he's told me about conversations that, you know, record labels slash radio people will have about like, well, we can't have like three black girls.
That we feature all the time or three white women that we feature all the time. Like it comes down to like that specific for it's like, it's like, well, this person's going to represent this and this woman's going to represent that. And like, it is that specific and it's terrible. And so when you are like, when there is actually one space that you're competing for and like, Being pitted against one another for then the, all of this starts to feel a lot more real and a lot more, uh, like there, the stakes are just higher.
Mel: Absolutely. The stakes are higher and that's why I hold so much empathy. For us all, because, you know, it's, we've, the system is rigged for us, for us to date, for us to kind of default to that, that feeling of comparison, that feeling of scarcity, that feeling of jealousy, because there actually hasn't been enough to go around for women for so for so long, but actually.
And in lots of ways that isn't true to. No, it isn't true. And I like, we haven't caught up our brains. Haven't always caught up with the reality, maybe in the music industry and specific nation industries. That might be true, but it's only true because people have created that, right. Like it's not, it doesn't have to be true. Um, but it's because. You know, purse, string holders have created that. Um, and that's, that's not okay. And so, you know, there's a, there's that, there's this wider picture. I think that country of, uh, of a culture that has created this to be a really significant failing that women have an experience that we have, but I feel like, and a lot of my work, you know, like, Like centers around helping women work through this and understand themselves in the context of that and to figure out what their jealousy and comparison actually means, because there's really good information on that.
Gabby: Yeah, huh? Okay. I, I feel like this is could very quickly become a podcast episode where I'm just interviewing you about work. I would not be mad about that at all, but
Mel: I did. I did. I actually want to hear about your, your experience of. Of like what you've observed as a woman and, and in relation to jealousy and friendships and work in life in general, like, I really want to hear your tick.
Gabby: Well, what I was going to say in regards to the scarcity thing, it's so frustrating because on the one hand you're presented with this, well, sometimes it's real. Sometimes it's not sense of scarcity. And then on the other hand, Working out of that fear never produces the best results. So it's just, it's one of those things where you're like, and I think most people and most women would acknowledge that, that, that their best work doesn't come out of that head space.
But they're somehow supposed to be like, presented with the reality and then be like totally Zen about it and be able to put forth their most, you know, Their best work out of this place that isn't fear-based, but kind of has some parameters around it. And it's just, it it's frustrating. Um, but my own experience, gosh, um, in my own experience, like I went through a couple of years of very crippling insecurity, like, um, and there were a lot of factors for that season of my life.
Um, and I. I won't fully go into all of them right now, but I'll just say, like, it was a season where I was stripped of a lot of stuff and I just had no confidence in myself, like on, on any level physical talent-wise worth. And it was a really dark place. It really was. And I, and so when I see the result was that.
I was hungry for affirmation, but at the same time, no amount of affirmation was ever going to fill the void. Um, and I, I started realizing that when I would have conversations with my husband, where I was like, where he was like this, this mindset that you're in, I have a lot of compassion for it, but. Do you not see all these people who are celebrating you and who care about you and who think you're wonderful.
And I was just genuinely like, I, my mental brain can think or can see that what you're saying is true, but my emotional brain still just feels like I'm alone. Nothing I ever do, succeeds everything that I am isn't as good as what someone else is doing. And. It took me a while to get out of that. And, and so I always think that this whole jealousy comparison topic always stems from our own personal. And there's, this is maybe just my experience, but our own personal view of ourselves, because I don't think that there's any amount of success or people who love you speaking into your life that is ever going to be able to give you the confidence that you need to be able to do the thing you're meant to do.
Just, I think that the, you need those people and you need people championing you. But I do think it has to come from within yourself because, because that is where, because if you're a con okay, cause this is why, because if you're constantly dependent on an external validation, you're you might succeed, but you'll never fully be at peace.
You'll always be chasing that next affirmation. And so I do think it does start with doing internal work.
Mel: What was that for you? How did that go for you? Like what, what kind of turned the tide of that?
Gabby: Um, so actually crazily enough, taking risks.
So I just started trying stuff. On my own. Unprompted. And for me that looked like doing a lot of writing.
I just started putting myself out there and putting my writing out there and seeing people respond to it. I'm not talking about masses of people I'm talking about, like every few weeks, like maybe someone would DM me or send me an email and be like, that really, really spoke to me. So I guess there is some kind of external validation, but just doing the work even without those people messaging me, just showing up and putting myself out there and doing it for months at a time.
Kind of proved to me that I could do it and that more than that, I liked to do it.
And it was rewarding for me, even when no one noticed it. And even when no one, commented on it, it felt good to do it. And I knew I didn't need external validation to know that I was good at it. You're smiling at me.
Why are you smiling?
Mel: Cause I'm so proud of you.
I just feel like that is so it's so brilliant. It's like, uh, something that I, something that I say all the time, it's like one of my mantras for myself. Oh, that's really wonky to say that one of my personal mantras, I don't know why it had an American accident, accent, accent, no shade.
Um, Oh my God. One of the things that I say all the time to myself to other people is that courage loves action. Yeah. Uh, because you can't. Get brave by not doing anything. Like you have to do something to that's the only way. So like by taking action and I'm not talking about grinding and hustling, I'm talking about.
Showing up for yourself, which is what you're talking about actually, um, is how you build that bravery muscle. Isn't not, and it's an, and it's by real life thinking about, do I like this? Um, is this, is this something that is connected with other people? Is that my goal? Is it, you know, all of that kind of stuff, but actually just taking those steps to do something because courage is only ever okay.
Belt and courage is a great antidote for comparison as well, building like a real evidence, you know, bank of things that your brand can recall that you're good at that you're that you've, you're competent today that you enjoy, right? Yeah. I love that stuff. Like your brand loves that, but that's only, it can only build up that evidence bank by.
Gabby: Yeah, well, and here's the best part. And I, I kind of goes into, I think what we want to talk about is like when you take, and maybe this is. Tell me what your experiences with your work that you do. But I've my experience is that when you put yourself out there, you take a risk and you just start trying stuff.
You end up rubbing shoulders with other women who are just trying stuff. And you guys are all kind of like bonding over this adrenaline that you get from just it's like, I don't know if anyone would like this, but I'm just putting it out there and you're doing that too. Oh my gosh. Like, and it becomes this community.
And so I think sometimes it's easy when you like log onto the internet or, you know, look at the world around you, you see these women who have seemed to have these like effortless relationships that are based around something that they do, you know, um, that's mutual and you think, Oh, well this is just networking.
You know, they are, they're just friends because they're trying to, you know, Help the other person succeed. And sometimes that is the case, but I think more often than not, they're just people who have found each other in the freefall that is just trying something. And it's like, I need a buddy for this.
You're doing it too. We're going to hold hands and we're going to fall together and maybe we're going to crash and burn, but at least we'll have someone along for the ride with us, you know?
Mel: That analogy doesn't really end well, does it?
Gabby: I don't know. Maybe you could fly at the end.
Mel: Maybe parachute comes out.
Hopefully. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that'd be awesome. Um, I was just wanting to give that a little bit of hope in there for the end of that. Um, no, absolutely agree. Gabby. That's what my whole business like was built on. Literally my whole. Business was built on me, go in. I need, I need to be around other women that are doing things that are outside of their comfort zone.
Anybody else? Like literally that's how it started. And, and that is my experience is that women are really hungry for that kind of community as well, because, um, Because I think that it's exponentially easier to be around other women that are trying to be brief, you know, it just is, it just is. It's like it's, it's science, man.
It's always Moses in some way, but, um, but you have to take action with it. Um, and I think. I think our comparison and our jealousy you're absolutely right. It absolutely, um, is our own work today when we feel out for ourselves. Um, but, and, you know, there has to be that certain level of detachment from the, the Prius, from the positive affirmation stuff, so that it really does feel true and not hinged on that.
But I also think. That if we're, if we're deciding to detach from that side of things, we also need to detach from the criticism and the, any kind of negative feedback or other people's opinions as well. So don't like, don't hang on to one and not the other, like, like, is there a way that we can, we can kind of sheds both of the expectations of that.
Um, In some way. Of course, of course. Not always. And not at all times because we're human beings, but yeah. With egos that, that need to fed. Um, and that's okay.
Gabby: But yeah, I kind of think when you take a risk in the company of other women who are also taking risks, That's when you can, you can switch comparison to celebration because when they, when you see them succeed, you know, the risk that they took on a personal level to get where they are.
And so they're. Achievement feels like your achievement. Absolutely. Because, because you've done it together and so you can genuinely celebrate another person. Um, and I, I mean, I do agree, like I do think that learning how to hold the good and the bad feedback intention and yeah. Just understanding that.
It's going to get both of, it's going to get to you on some, some level.
Mel: but both of it is also just opinion. Exactly, exactly. Surely. So this, so one of the, one of the people that I kind of have studied under and trained under is this woman called Tara Moore. And I keep her book playing bag, which we'll put in the show notes.
Um, Like I keep it beside my, at my desk at all times, here it is. Um, and it's scribbled in and it's marked and everything, and I've, I've tried to facilitate in her, in the, in the methods that she uses and all that kind of stuff. Um, I'm one of the things that she talks about is. That is, especially for women who have grown up as, as the good girls, right?
The good students, um, all of that kind of stuff is that we can be so hooked on praise and criticism, um, as like the bale and end-all of our existence on value. Right. And learning too. Unhook from that and detach from that as such big lifelong work. Um, and so she, she kind of frames this and, and this, this idea that feedback only ever tells you about the person giving the feedback.
It doesn't actually tell you anything true about your work, but what you're doing it literally only ever tells you about that person. Yeah, whether good or bad, right. It tells you about their preferences. It tells you about their expectations. It tells you what there, what they care about, what they enjoy, but it doesn't tell you anything true about you.
And so to hold that as truth, whether it's good or, but yeah, it is dangerous for us.
Gabby: Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Oh, I mean, that's so true.
Mel: And I love that. I find it really free. And actually, I mean to think about it like that,
Gabby: I think probably a lot of people would, what is your experience? But because I mean, you've done too.
You've done some huge stuff with your career. Like you started a nonprofit and ran that for a years and now you own your own business coaching. Other people I'm like, those are two things that. Even as your friend and as someone who has taken my own set of risks, feel really mega to me. Like what, where did you kind of get the self confidence to be like, I can do these things.
Mel: Self-confidence feels like such a big word,
Gabby: but I think, I think the question that I ask is whatever. I mean, What most people, when they look at you and your career would set, would be like, I feel like she's a confident person. And so, and like, not even in a negative way at all, like in a really admirable way, but if it's not that, then what is it?
Mel: You know, funny because I like, I don't remember a whole lot of, a whole lot of narrative growing up from my parents or, um, family members or. Institutions really that told me that I couldn't do anything. Like I don't remember a whole lot of that. And I know that that's not everybody's experience. And I know that some people have absolutely experienced very critical people in their lives and very, um, difficult situations that have impacted their, their CFD, their feeling of.
That they don't feel safe to try things. Um, but I guess I, my like my family, like my parents, um, they did a whole bunch of different stuff. They did, they took risks, you know, they moved. Yeah. I feel like that actually has had a massive impact and my resilience or ability to, um, To evolve and, and different into different things has been my actual childhood experience of having to move quite a lot.
Like we, you know, we did several big international moves within 10 years. Um, so, so some of it is that, is that kind of upbringing of yeah. Of. Trying things I think. Yeah. And some of it is really just doing things, quite afraid, like doing things, doing things with a certain level of, I don't know how this is going to go, but an often, often what has happened is the things that I have.
Grown into, and the careers that have developed have almost happened? Nope. I wouldn't say by accident because there was purpose behind them, but they evolved because I saw a gap or a Nate and I was like, Hmm, I wonder, I wonder if there's something that could happen here. And it started small and it started like, As a voluntary thing or as a like experimental thing.
And then gradually I was, I, you know, I tried to integrate it a little bit more and a little bit more and, and grew it a little bit more each time. And each new version of whether it was freedom acts and the activist stuff, and the work that happened with that over the last eight years more. Assembly over the last, whatever it's been like five years.
Gabby: I think that's a great point is like you can look at something that someone has built and not realize that they're actually 10 years along on the process and you're not expected to be there. On day one a day, your day one is going to look very different to someone else's year 15. And so why would you ever compare yourself to that?
But I think we do. I think we do. And I think even smart people do, because that is how we're used to drawing comparisons. You know, what I think is so funny as you were talking about, um, all of this I, so this year I. You know, the people you just meet on Instagram, like us, we met on Instagram, um, and then straight up, excuse me, to strike up a genuine friendship with, so I have this, this, uh, text thread with four other feet, three other female writers.
So it's the four of us on the, on the group text. And we, when we started it, we kind of like all admitted how we saw the other people and it was so. Hilariously revealing, because so like there, I've got one girl in the group thread who she's, she writes articles like name an online publication she's written for them.
Like, and like I'll, I'll I'll to this day will open up my email subscribers. Scripts SLA subscriptions and her name will like pop up as like one of the authors it's like Huffington post, blah, blah, blah, New York times. And she was like, Oh yeah, I feel so insecure talking to you guys sometimes. Cause you all have bigger online followings.
And I'm like, what? And then we all were like, well, we think you're the real writer because you literally write for a living and you write all of these things. And then someone else, like the, another woman on the thread is like written three books and I'm like, This is so hilarious that it doesn't matter how much you achieve.
It's such an example to me of it doesn't matter how much you achieve you. Are always still susceptible to the same traps of comparison and always thinking that someone else is doing more than you when really, you know, we're all just doing stuff. And I think at least in that group thread, we're all we all have.
Then on this journey of comparison for some time new level that we dabble, isn't that what they say? Yep. And so, well, I think, you know, yes, that's true. But I also think we were all really able to like, just laugh at. That's good. That's going to be like, Oh my gosh, we're so dumb that we think these things.
Um, and isn't it hilarious that we have all harbored these secret insecurities about one another when we could just be friends and now we are, and it's amazing, but I just think that, yeah, I just think that it's just, it's so funny that it doesn't matter. How far along on this process you get, or what you accomplish, you can still find yourself in a place where it's like this person is doing more than me and therefore they are better welcome to our first ever outbreak.
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Mel: I think sometimes it's, it can be really difficult. I think it's, I mean, not as such healthy example of high women can acknowledge their jealousy or their comparison and just be like, okay, we're just all the same here. Like, let's be on the same team and let's not withhold any Prius or, or support. Um, but like the other experience, the unhealthy side of jealousy and comparison is also very real.
Isn't it? Like, I know, I mean, I have lost friendships because of the, um, I have, I have been on the receiving end of someone else's jealousy and comparison. Um, and it's painful. It's really painful. Um, and it's not because I'm doing anything better or more it's because. That other person was really struggling and it was hard for them and in lots of different ways, you know, and you know, I, I think there's a, there's a, there's a line that I have a kind of invisible line that I have drawn in some situations where I understand if someone is struggles with.
My evolution of my life or whatever, but when that becomes toxic, I draw the line and it's no longer a relationship that is going to bring anything good into my life, you know? And I, and that, you know, that can send me into a spiral. So there have been relationships where I've had to draw a line and been like, Actually, this is not a friendship.
That is, that is going to be good for me because you can't handle, you can't get a handle of your, your own insecurity here. And it's really, it's really screened with my head because I'm starting to feel like it's something wrong with me. Um, and that's, and that's really hard for us to admit that someone else feels jealous of us. Isn't that because you don't want to seem big headed and that's no, that's not what, it's a bite. It's just understanding the complexity of relationships, particularly for women when they experience jealousy. And that's what, you know, sometimes that's what I said at the beginning is that it can go to that like, and mobilizing thing that you talked about, where it can like immobilize.
Us, right. Like why would I even try? Like, what's the point. I'm never going to share what I have to say or do or make or create because somebody else is doing it better or whatever, but then there's the hyper mobile, um, side of that, where it, it goes into competitiveness and resentment and. Like bitchiness and, um, and like a little bit of stalkery ness, right?
Like just like being hyper aware of what someone else is doing, um, that kind of hit following stuff. And that is, that is not good for us. Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, creating from that. It's never going to produce your best work because it's all rooted in scarcity. Gabby: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I want to talk about two things in relation to that first.
I want to nerd out about some Enneagram stuff go on. Um, and then second of all, I think we should wrap up this episode with. Just some encouragement about how scarcity isn't as real as we think it is. And I think that you're going to have some really good things to say about that, but I, I think it's interesting watching how you deal with people who are jealous of you versus how I deal with it. So as an Enneagram four, and maybe this is a bit of my, like, Ruthless wing three coming in to play. And I don't have a very strong wing three. Uh, I tend to just be like, well, like I'm, I'm pretty ruthless about it. Like not in a, not even in a conscious way of like, I'm cutting this person out, but I'm just like, that's their loss.
Like if they are jealous of me, that's not my problem. That's not my, not my thing. I I'm free of that. I'm just going to keep trucking along and I feel secure in myself. And so that's there, that's there ish. I've I've done this work before I get that. It's ugly. I get that. No one can speak into it and I'm out Gabby out.
Like if you're not going to serve me anymore, not serve me. But like, if your friendship is going to become a toxic place, right. I just, I have so little patience for that probably to a fault. To a fault, I would say. Um, and I probably needed to work at that a little bit, but my gut instinct, my impulse reaction is to be like, okay, bye.
Um, and I think I need to work on that, but I think the way that I've watched you handle it with like the wing two and the wing nine, the peacemaker and the helper, it's like. You have so much more patience and compassion and empathy. And I think that's a good thing I really do. And I know you're rolling your eyes at me right now, but we've had these conversations.
We will talk about stuff in our lives and in our friendships. And I'll be like, okay, just like close the tab on that person. And you're like, well, that's just not how I do it. And I'm like, Oh that I should take some notes because I think that, that I could really...
Mel: well, I have done that lately have done that. There are there relationships where I have closed the tab. It has maybe I've maybe hung around a bit too long on that, you know, um, where it has not been healthy. Uh, and I have just kind of like, let it poison me. Abetz right. I'm hoping that it might get better. But I think there are lots of different factors in terms of the bigger picture of the relationship.
Um, and also, uh, am I able to draw a line here? Some of the things I consider. Am I able to draw a line here and just kind of maybe less than my expectation of this relationship, I can keep it as, as something that's important to me, but I, but I'm not going to hold it in the same esteem that I would, someone who is going to embrace and celebrate me.
That's not, you know, Well, you know what I mean, by embrace and celebrate like mutually, I mean, Chile. Yeah. It's all about that mutuality for me. Um, and so that's, that's the kind of the question that, that I ask, I suppose. Um, and sometimes, sometimes I think it's important to, to model the, that it isn't, that there is plenty of room.
Yeah. Um, for everybody and actually listened to a really good episode of Brenae Brian's podcast. Uh, the one that she does, the leadership one that she does dare to late. Have you listened to it?
Gabby: Yeah. Cause you forwarded it to me. And you were hoping that I was going to say, is this what you are? I'm just, I'm delighted that it is, but I was not.
I was thinking. I just think you ha you in general have really good things to say about how scarcity is not as much of a thing as we like to think it is, but that episode is so good. We'll put it in the show notes too. Yeah.
Mel: So this is an episode that she does with, um, Simon Sinek, um, who wrote, what's it called?
Find your way or.
Gabby: I dunno, something like that for the episode. Okay. Well, he has to, he has some
Mel: very viral, um, Ted talks and interviews and stuff like that.
Like, he is quite a very, in the, I guess in the personal development business world is quite, uh, quite a voice. Um, but he has written a book called the infinite game.
Um, and it's a little bit like male centric. Language like the idea of it being a game even is I don't necessarily buy into,
Gabby: I hate games, cancer stupid.
Mel: No, but just like. Um, but some of the principles that he talks about in the interview, and if you have a chance, you should definitely go and listen to it because it is quite, um, as quite a significant boost, a significant one for me.
Um, but he talks about this idea of like infinite. Like having an infinite mind. Right? Like having an infinite mindset, which actually I translate as a generous mindset. And I talk about this a lot, um, with my clients who are really like, worried about scarcity and worried about like, not having enough clients or not having enough customers or not having enough followers or all of that kind of stuff.
I'm just like, you know, having an infinite mindset towards yourself. Towards other people towards your business is such a more sustainable way to see the world that there is endless amounts of opportunity for everybody that there is no such thing as winning actually winning doesn't exist. So, yeah, wait, we don't ever get to win anything because we get, what do we get to a destination and then law.
Right. It gets not, that's not how it works, but actually if we can be these and this is where my anagram one stuff just really goes hell for leather. But is this idea of like, if we're always thinking about improving and being like getting better all the time, like, that's just, that's an infinite mindset, right?
Like I'm never going to be the best cause that doesn't the best. Isn't even a thing. Hmm. It's not a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Um, because then someone else would come along and do something different. Cause there's, you know, there's no need for metrics or measurements and this, we can, all, all of us do our thing. We can all explore.
We can all be curious. We can all evolve. We can all accumulate and share and the world is better for it. We are our own souls are better for it. Yeah. Then this feeling of, um, if I, if I don't do this, like, or if they get that before I do, then, then that mean something about me. That's just not even a thing.
It doesn't even need to be a thing.
Gabby: Yeah. I, I completely agree. And I think, you know, I think my reference, it it's telling who my references are and who your references are. So Simon Sinek, uh, but then also Liz Gilbert, Elizabeth Gilbert would say that in her book, big magic, which I can link. She talks about how, yeah, it's an amazing, amazing book.
If you're a writer, it's like the writer Bible, but really I, she talks about how the world has never heard. Right. The world has never heard what you have to say in your voice. And so I think that's part of why scarcity, isn't a thing is there is no one who can do what you want to do, the way that you want to do it, or say the thing that you need to say the way you're going to say it like that is why we're not just saying scarcity is not a thing because it feels good.
We're saying it because it's actually, as long as there are infinite people. There is infinite opportunity because you have all of these different perspectives. And some you're going to say something that, Oh, that only resonates with a few people. And that's okay. I remember when I first started my first newsletter, every single time I would get.
Uh, subscribe. Like I would send one out and every single time I would lose subscribers. Oh, I still do in droves and droves. Yeah. And at first that used to really bother me and I would wonder what I said wrong and how I could have worded something differently. And now I'm like, Felicia, not even in, not even in a like, sassy way, Mel: No, but like your way.
Gabby: I know. Yeah. I am figuring who my people are and those people are not it so I can wish them well, and they can go find someone that they can hear things from. And, and they're probably the, they were right. Like the things that I have to say don't serve them. And so why should they stick around? But there are going to be people who. Wanting to hear what I have to say and whom it's going to, it's going to serve. And I want to just keep focusing on myself and honing my voice and my skills and trust that there are going to be people out there who are going to resonate with them.
Mel: This is all about self-trust. Actually it is, it's all about trust in your own innate goodness, the goodness inside of you, that wishes everybody.
Well, that wants the best for all people like wants all people to flourish and do well. Um, and that there is on your trust in that there's enough for you in the world, that there is plenty for you and the world. Um, And that is such that that has been such a beautiful shift for me. And I will tell you that it has, that has brought greater impact into my business, into my life.
Yeah. Operating from that, that kind of mindset.
Gabby: Yeah, I also, okay. This is getting super long, but I do want to say one more thing before we wrap up is I think sometimes when we get into this creator mindset, we, we stopped consuming other people's creation. So like, you can be like, no, I'm putting stuff out there.
The world needs me. The world needs my voice. It needs my thing that I'm doing. I'm going to stop. Like being a consumer of other people's thing, whether it's like crocheting or internet influencing or whatever it is. I used to think that for, for some time, quite some time, if like, if I'm, if I'm putting myself out there, I need to like close myself out from being a consumer of other people's. Thing, whatever they're putting out there. And I don't know why I thought that I just, I just did.
Mel: Well, because we get that whole like, stay in your lane message, right?
Gabby: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that's part of it, for sure.
Mel: Like around what other people are doing is, is often the advice, right?
Gabby: Yes. I do think that's part of it, but I also think there was some ego in there for me of like, if I'm perfectly honest, I think there is some, a level of.
I will, I, I can't inwardly celebrate someone else's success. So I'm going to, and this is so gross now that I'm saying it out loud, but here we go. Okay.
Mel: And the bunch of people that listened to us, I'm sure they feel they can hold this for you.
Gabby: All right. Well, thanks for being a safe space guys, but I think like, You know, there was a part of me that felt nervous to champion other people on and their early beginnings, because I was jealous really what it of came down to.
And now. When people start stuff, I just see it as an opportunity to be in on the ground floor. And it feels like slow flee, a really fun thing to be part of like a fun thing to witness someone spreading their wings and trying something new. And the result has been like some incredible friendships. You know, like when you're on the ground for floor rooting for someone from day one on a new venture that they're doing, there is nothing more bonding than that.
There is nothing more bonding. And I can tell you as someone who has started multiple things, some of which have failed and some that have succeeded when someone reaches out to you on those in those first weeks or that first year of you trying something new and believing in you and investing in you.
There, it just bonds you to them and you get the sweetest friendships. Like I even think like when we started storied, Mel, you subscribed, like you were like one of the first subscribers and I just, and I, and I know that yeah, you did it cause you were my friend, but also because you, like, I remember we talked about it the day afterwards.
You're like, you deserve to be paid for this and I want to pay you for it. And just having friends who believe in you to that extent is so powerful. So. I think to, to receive it, you have to give it, you know, if you're listening and you're like, well, I don't have friends in my life. You do that for me. Be the friend and it will happen for you, you know?
Um, yeah, that's, that's kind of the only thing.
Mel: It's a good old refund. And so in that situation, as well as not like you just, um, you, you, you see that energy come back at you. Yeah. And it's not that you do it for that reason, but, um, but you do it for the, for the sheer fact that there is so much, there's infinite amounts of things that the example on maybe will finish on this.
But the example that I, that I, that I give sometimes is that if there can be a. The bajillion dollar pined industry that focuses unlike millions of products available to you from the minds of all of these different people that focus on this, these tiny strips of hair above your eye. Okay. Then there is room for you, you know, like if there are.
If people can and still be creating eyebrow products for every little, for this tiny little piece of hair that is above your way, then there's enough room for you to be an artist. There's enough room for you to be another photographer. There's enough room for you to be another writer. Okay. So yeah. Think about the eyebrow.
Gabby: Yeah, I think that's an amazing place to wrap this conversation up.
Mel: Yeah. It's a big topic. And I think, you know, I feel like fluttery and may tell me talking about it. It's such a, like, I can feel my cheeks get flushed and my body really responds to it because I know it's so important for us to like, to get to grips with it, to recognize it, to feel compassion for ourselves and others.
To have boundaries with it, um, and use it as information and feel as well. Um, for sure. But yeah, so we would love to hear your thoughts. Um, please feel free to DM us, to email us makinganeffortpodcast@gmail.com. Find us in all of the other. And all of the other ways and let us know, um, if anything has jumped out at you, if, if you have had experiences of this yourself, where you, yeah.
We want to hear it all.
Gabby: All right. We love you guys. And we will talk to you next time.
Mel: Bye everybody.
