Episode 09: How we feel about our bodies

This week on the podcast we’re talking about how we REALLY feel about our bodies. Not what we’re supposed to feel, not what we aspire to feel, just our real, raw feelings. And we just want to acknowledge from the get-go that this is a subject we’re nervous to talk about because we know it is so loaded, and that our experiences with our bodies will NOT be everyone’s experience, and that’s okay. We can only speak to what we know and we invite you to add your voice to the conversation if you feel we missed something.

We talk about how so much of our internal chatter is about our appearance and our bodies. It takes up a lot of mind space.

Also, perhaps for some of us more than ever, this past year has brought our bodies and well being to the forefront. We’re out of our normal bodily routines in so many ways, not being about to get out as much, sleep schedules are different, so much is different and we want to acknowledge that.

We briefly mention a BRILLIANT book about how the mind and trauma play a role in our bodies’ responses called The Body Keeps the Score and we definitely recommend it as a good read if you’re interested in this topic.

We discuss whether or not the body neutrality as an ideal is even possible and what it would take to get there.

Mel shares about how stress shows up physically in her jaw and tenseness in her body overall.

Gabby shares about how she struggled (and at times continues to struggle) with body image after a traumatic birthing experience.

We talk about how we HATE that the world scrutinises women’s bodies so much and how we definitely received the message that it’s not okay to be okay with your body.

We talk about how our mothers impacted our body image and how we want to be open and do the work for the generations who come after us.

As always, we want to hear from you. Please feel free to email us any of your thoughts on this topic or anything else we’ve shared about. Happy Monday!

>>> Click here to read the computer generated transcript (note that the transcript isn't perfect)

Gabby: Welcome to the Making An Effort Podcast, the podcast about all the things we make an effort with and some of the things we don't, uh, this week, we are going to talk about how we really feel about our bodies. And I have to say we are a little bit nervous about delving into this topic because well, for so many reasons, I think it is so charged and there's so many minefields and not like our experiences is aren't going to be everyone's experiences with their bodies.

And so. I just want to say we're probably going to get some stuff wrong. Yeah. Even though we know Mel is never wrong. jokes, jokes, jokes. Um, uh, so yeah, we're just, we just want to be brave and talk about this because we know it is something that, um, we really. We deal with, and we're not, we know we're not alone.

Mel: Absolutely. I feel like, um, it's only in the last few years, really, I have recognized how much of my mental chatter is abide, observe on my body in some way.

Hmm. How much I think about my body. And lots of way, you know, like what is going on in my body, what my body looks like, how it feels, all of that kind of stuff. And I, I have spent, I feel like I've spent so many, so many years feeling so detached from my body. Does that make sense? I don't know if I can explain that well, but just what does that mean in like, um, Not really recognizing my mind body connection very fully.

Gabby: Huh. Okay. You know? Yeah.

Mel: Which is absolutely a thing. Um, and how that's all connected up. But I just think this topic is so massive for women in particular. I know it is for man, but in a different way. So we're not going to speak to that experience cause we don't have, uh, but um, you know, I think. So I think I can only speak for myself, but, but I would say that a lot of my, a lot of my insight chatter is as often about my body.

Gabby: Yeah.

Mel: Yeah. You know? And, um, yeah, I'm really interested in. Understand and why that is. I think there's a lot of backstory for women about why our bodies fail. Um, so why we're so fixated on them? Um, yeah, so my, my whole experience has just been that, um, I felt really detached from it. I have a whole new appreciation for it. And how it connects to my mind, but I also find that there's like, I just, it just consumes a lot of Headspace for me still. Yeah. Gabby: Well, I think like bodies and health are at the top of everyone's mind this year in particular with a world pandemic and like health being so, uh, important and, um, wellness being important.

And. I think just also we're doing things with our body this year that were, that are abnormal for us. Like even just simple routines of getting out of the house or not getting out of the house or, um, being able to go to the gym or just working out at home. Like all of these things that we have kind of built into the habit of our ourselves are no longer available to us or look very different to what they used to.

And so I think. It's only natural that we would find ourselves in this place of thinking about our bodies in a more than maybe usual. Yeah. I don't know. I definitely think. And even just like the stress of carrying all the trauma from, of this last year in our bodies and what that feels like. And just, I remember getting halfway through last year, I think about July in July of 2020, just feeling like why can't I get out of bed?

Like I'm so tired. But all I do is sleep. And I mean, there are definitely some mental health issues going on at the time for me that I saw I sought professional help for, but I also think it was just like, you know, the body keeps score, like when there is stuff going on. Um, and when it feels different and weighty like your body, you know, picks up on that and re reacts to it.

And, you know, I think for me, And especially as a woman, because that's the experience I can speak from. I think that we feel a lot of guilt. At least I tend to feel a lot of guilt and shame attached to resting and not being active, whether that looks like not working out or just like truly resting on the couch and not doing stuff around the house or sending an email or whatever it might be.

Mel: I don't know. Oh, absolutely. Like your body must be doing something at some stage. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the messages that we have received from the world is that that is what we are good for. Right? Like it's doing things and producing things and all the rest of it. Um, yeah, I feel, I feel like I have much, uh, much more. Like awareness of what is happening with my body and what that is actually telling me about what's going on for me. So I, if I'm anxious or if there's loads of stuff going on, that's kind of stressful or hard or whatever. I feel it all in like my, my neck and my jaw. Yeah. Huh. I could just shows up in my body.

And I think that, I think that's actually amazing too. Isn't it?

Yeah. Like, Oh, obviously it's, it, it can be painful when things show up in our bodies because of stress or, you know, trauma or whatever. Um, and we are not experts, neither of those at all, are lifting experiences. What we can talk from. And, you know, I think it is amazing that our body lets us know as well.

And. You know, I'm, I've become deep, more, so much more deeply appreciative of this body of mine. Um, particularly over the last year or so, and its ability to just sustain me and do things and all the rest of it. But yet then there's this other side that is just for taking all the time, you know, like. We so interested in like a couple of months ago, um, do you of wanting to lose some weight?

Uh, he was just feeling like groggy. He knew he needed to kind of, yeah. Shift some lbs and he bought a set of scales and it's the first time that we've had scales in our house and 10 years. Seriously. Um, I just never weighed myself ever. And they were sitting in the bathroom. Um, and every time I went to the toilet, I'd be like sitting on the toilet, like at the scales going.

Hmm. Curious, curious, here, he up, it got to the point where I was just like, actually, I'm going to need you to put those skills somewhere else that I can't see them because I do not want. To know. Yeah. I do not want to know as not another, that is not one more thing that I want to add to my list of how I feel about my body is numbers and figures, but I find it really tough.

I know not everybody does, but I just don't want to know. So let's get rid of those for a while or put them into my site. Um, But I just, it just kind of struck me. I triggered, I was by, by that, by even having skills in my eyesight, I was just like, yeah, way more conscious of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Gabby: How, how do, if you don't mind me asking...

Mel: how much do I weigh?

Gabby: We would get canceled so fast. And rightly so.

Mel: It's just the way you said that you were like, if you don't mind me,

Gabby: Well, you mentioned that you didn't need that as part of the dialogue for like your inner dialogue about your, how you feel about your body. And I just wanted to know how, like, what that dialogue is these days for you.

Oh, if you don't mind.

Mel: No, I don't mind sharing clearly. Um, I think, I think I. There's a lot of like wrestling conversation that goes on around like, Oh, like you will never feel, never fail. Like your body is like toned or solid, but then you don't put the work in for that male you re you know, and then, and then this other little voice is like, screw that, like.

Yeah. I mean, diet culture is a load of shit anyway. So you don't, you don't need to think about that. Like you're, you're a evolved woman that, yeah, all of this, like I have this conflicting, like I would love to fail really, like. Not confident in my body. I feel like that's such a trite description of what I want to fail, but just like not self-conscious about certain parts of it that are yeah.

Socially. What's the right language. I don't even know, like conformed. Yeah. But then I also, then there's just also this conversation that's like, but that's not how you actually fail about this whole. Subject Mel, like that's, that's not what you fail. So, but it is a conflict. And I just, you know, I hope I fail.

Like I talked to a lot of women in my life every day, um, where that is such a, an inner dialogue or conflict to bite, you know, wanting to yeah. To look a certain way. And maybe that will. You know, feel better. There's so much that contributes to that. Our upbringing, you know, social media, uh, like we live in a really fattest society where an ideal is promoted above all else.

And yeah. So stuff like that I think is I think my, my inner dialogue is, is just like, uh, a back and forth between like, Um, the righteous way to think about things, but then also they're really vulnerable.

Gabby: Yeah.

Mel: Like, I don't like her, the fat and my back looks yeah. When I'm wearing a bra. Yeah, totally. And then I'm like, but why, why do you, you care?

Like, why should you know? And this whole idea of like being body neutral or like body neutrality, I just don't know if it's possible. What do you think?

Gabby: I mean, I certainly have never experienced it personally. Um, I don't know, you know, I think body neutrality, I think has only really, and I could be completely wrong, but I do think it's only possible if that's something that everyone is striving for.

Um, because the reality is like we're all kind of intertwined with each other and, uh, we're all living in each other's worlds. And we do receive a lot of messages about our bodies and what they should be and look like and how they should be experienced from the world around us. And it's not, I think the thing that I always like find myself, beating myself up for.

It was not being good enough or like good enough at fighting back that narrative. Like on top of feeling bad about myself, I then feel bad about myself for not being

Mel: that's a fun, double, double punch gut, or right of shame.

Gabby: Exactly. Where, like I remember feeling that, especially like after Danny was born, you know, I, my body.

Well, it was a very like traumatic birth and my body changed so much and just feeling like just completely, not at home in my own skin, like it just going. And I mean, I think I'm sure there's a lot of women who will be able to relate to this. I didn't have a very positive birthing experience or after birth experience and.

I think a lot of that was carried in my body. And I remember looking in the mirror and being like, I don't recognize this person and I also don't feel at home, but I also know that I'm supposed to somehow feel like it, this magical, super empowering thing just happened. And I like to consider myself a feminist and, you know, I'm supposed to have all these really like empowered thoughts about myself and then feeling like I was failing even my own ideals.

Like it was just a lot to carry and I still think I struggle with that at times I've gotten a lot better. Um, I think now I definitely just want to focus on what feels healthy for me. And I don't even mean that like by, you know, just the usual metrics, like. Crappy BMI for that means like, I just mean like, do I feel happy?

Do I feel energized? Do I feel like I'm getting enough sleep? Do I feel mentally alert? You know, all of those things, do I feel full? Do I feel hungry all the time? Like, you know, do like, and I'm, uh, here's, here's an example. So I'm not someone who shies away from gluten at all. I love bread. I love pastries, but.

I lately, and I don't know even know why this would have developed for me, but like lately, whatever I have bread, it's like immediately, like my stomach hurts and it's really depressing. And I do sometimes just power through and I'm like, you know what? I'm having the pizza. Cause it looks delicious, but I'm starting to listen to those cues that I feel like my body's giving me where it's like, I'm actually like.

Really unpaid. Like, could you not, or maybe just like, you know, like those that's kind of what I mean by like, like taking cues from my own body about what feels healthy for it and trusting my, trusting the voice of my body and trusting what it's telling me. Um, and sometimes those. Sometimes line up with societal health standards, like, Ooh, glutens bad for you. Mel: Right. Gabby: Uh, it's not bad for you. Um, I don't believe in bad foods, but for some reason right now my body is like, we don't like, Mel: yeah, we don't, we don't want that.

Um, yeah, that is such a, that's such a beautiful way to think of it. And I think that is as close to neutral as any of the kind of. Where we fail it by things is going to get, like, just that sense of I'm paying attention here.

I'm paying attention to how I fail. I'm not detached from my body. I know what feels good, what feels good and what feels, um, what, you know, what is support in may and we're not going to always get that right. And do right by our bodies. Yeah. Um, for sure, but just that. That feeling that you're tuning in a wee bit more, I think is so important.

Um, and then, and, and it's just super hard. It's so hard to get out of that mindset that it should look a certain way. Gabby: I know it really is

Mel: like really, and truly, it's so hard to shift that and I just find it. I find it infuriating as well. Actually, I find it really makes me cross, especially because in my work I say these amazing women with these like big, beautiful ideas and dreams, and they're so smart and they're so.

Creative. And they've got amazing things to offer. And they literally like are terrified to show their face on social media or like be visible in any way, because we're just, we're, we're scrutinized so so much. We scrutinize ourselves. We scrutinize each other. Whether we say it out loud or not, we do. The rest of the world, scrutinizes women's bodies.

So of course we feel so unsafe to kind of show them or share them in lots of ways. So I say, I say it all the time. It just makes me really cross. But I also know that I'm at my own think and contribute contributes to it sometimes too. Yeah. Yeah. Gabby: Oh totally. I mean, 100%, same. I think. What are the things that I, that has been most helpful for me in shifting that perspective has been not speaking out my own insecurities and don't get me wrong.

Like I think we, there, there are productive conversations we can have about this topic. I think we're having one now. I think that, you know, kind of coming at this from all angles is good, but. Like, you know, my high school self would have been like, Oh my gosh, I shouldn't eat this because of that. Or like, Oh my gosh, I'm so fat. Or, you know, I used to say all those things out loud because I used to think, well, at least if I'm like sharing, like saying that I'm, self-aware about these things that I think are downfalls about who I am and what my body looks like, then. Yeah. At least, you know, people think don't think that. I think I'm totally okay with myself, which I'm like as an adult now, I'm like, I am totally fine with who I am like, and there's no reason why I shouldn't be okay with what I look like and who I am.

And I think it's such a sad and depressing message that. I, I mean, I don't know how men receive it when they're growing up, but definitely girls, uh, receive this message that it's not okay to be okay with their bodies. Right. You know, at least that's how. I felt about my body, you know, and I, Chris and I were, were talking about how, um, we're just so glad that like, what is being appreciated as a beauty ideal in the world right now is expanding and, uh, becoming more diverse.

And, you know, I was saying. As a high schooler. I remember thinking like there was one beauty standard and it was like indie you white, skinny girl. Gwyneth Paltrow vibes. Like that was the, you know, Rachel from friends. Like those were like the beauty ideals, white, um, and as like a curvy. Mexican girl. I was like, I will never be that.

I'll never be that and feeling like there's automatically something wrong with me because I was born looking a certain way. Yeah. I'm just so glad that that seems to be slowly being chipped away at, and that what we are calling beauty beautiful is. Becoming more diverse. Uh, but it is something that I wish that I had embraced sooner or been aware of sooner, you know?

Mel: Well, it wasn't, it just wasn't seen it just wasn't the same, like you had no, nobody to look at and be like, Oh, okay. You know, and yeah, I find that the whole kind of high school. Body experience so painful to think about it because it was such a, Oh, such a, such a hard time for a human anyway, you know, let alone, like, I was always Toler than all my friends, always a good one or two sizes bigger than everybody, especially in Canada or like your whole summer revolves around pool parties.

And, um, You know, going out to the Lake and being in a swimsuit and all that kind of stuff. I was, it just was never, I just never felt comfortable. And then you have those like friends who, Oh, did you ever have EMAP he didn't but yeah, we're have a friend who like, would insist on trying on your clothes. No one that they're bigger.

Your clothes are bigger and then they put them on and you're just like, Oh, yeah. Um, I hated that. So, so much those friends that were like, Ooh, that's cute. Can I try that on dah, dah, dah? And then it's like hanging on them and you're like, um, so loads of memories like that, I think just that really. And I would love to be able to say, Oh, I'm here.

I am in my, like, mid to late thirties and I've made my pace with my body. Um, but I would say I appreciate it. I appreciate it way more than I used to because you know, we've talked about this before. I took a Brennan, ginger and locked. I never in my wildest dreams ever thought I could do. My body could do what it is doing when I, when I run.

And I'm just like, isn't that amazing? Isn't that amazing that I could not do that a year ago that up, but my body was like, let's give this a go. I'm pretty sure I get this, you know,

so there's, there's not real appreciation for what my body can tell me things adapt and change and yeah. Yeah. And especially this year, I think just appreciating health and all of those.

Yeah. All the stuff that we take for granted as able-bodied people, Gabby: you know? Yeah. I just, I feel like it is worth saying like, you know, If you're listening to this, your body survived a world pandemic. And that does like, that is like a myth. I mean, it's amazing. And it's worthy of celebrating and, you know, I don't know. I think we just, we're so hard on ourselves, at least I am. You know, I also think, you know, you talk about w are we both talking about like, being disappointed with. Not being as far along in this conversation mentally as we would like to be. But I do think that, you know, the generation of women before us.

Like, you know, every generation like leaves like a little bit for the generation that's coming ahead. So, you know, every, I feel like it's getting better all the time and we're just building on top of the work that other women have done before us. And so I just see that so much where. You know, I don't remember my mom and her friends having these conversations, but I do remember having them, having other types of conversations about what it means to be a woman and how to celebrate your, your body and yourself.

And I'm just, and being even just like education about this is what your body does. You know, my mom was really big on that and. I just think that's more than the generation before her.

Mel: Uh, and then there's, and then there's or other experiences where like, like my mum, my mum, I think was, and I think this is important to say as well.

Cause it's also. Probably true for lots of other people. Like my mum was pretty critical of white body bodies, so I didn't actually have the same experience issue, but, um, so I feel as in like, you know, she maybe would have mentioned if I had put on a bit of weight. You know, um, I know that there much more extreme versions of that, that other women have experienced from their moms as well.

And so I'm so, so aware of this with having a daughter, you know, so I, you know, Anna will sit with me in the morning when I'm getting red eye. Like she. It's so girly and so into her appearance, um, Gabby: which I am trying to really celebrate.

Mel: Yeah. And not be like, Oh, that's shallow. Don't, you know, it's not a by watching.

And I think that's, so that's such an interesting switch that I've had to make as well is I believe that, but actually. I also want her to not have as many negative feelings about. Her body or celebrating it like she's, Oh, she's almost five. Um, but she loves setting with me in the morning. We sit on the floor and I get my pencil makeup. You shiny makeup. So many messages about my pencil case of makeup. My kids like. Like it'll get what funny, like shiny ones, case of makeup. That's funny. Um, it's true there. I use five things on my face at any given point, um, at the max and she just loves to like, Pick the brush, you know, like she gets me to put a little bit of lipstick on her and a little bit of blush and she, she just loves it. And I think I feel real. Like delight in being able to like, even dev was like, should she be at five? Should she be really that into all this? Is that okay? Like, is she, are we creating some sort of like superficial monster of an, of a daughter that's going to be like, only about the lyrics, blah, blah, blah.

But I really trust, I really trust myself as a parent too, but I'm going to. I'm going to hold healthy messages within all of that. And we talk about how makeup is for fun. Um, and, uh, you know, it doesn't make you more beautiful, but it's, it is fun. And all of that, like this, this little girl had her outfit the night before and lays it out.

Oh, she is super, my daughter.

Gabby: Is it Brown?

Mel: In fact, yes. Uh, with a side of kitty print jeans, you know? Yeah. So, so I think that, yes, we take what we have learned or not learned from women and cultures that have gone before us. And we, yeah. We try and do better so that these girls that are. Moving through the world after us get to feel a bit more free.

Gabby: Yeah. Well, and then when ADA has her podcast with her friends, she'll, she'll be so much more enlightened than we are on the topic.

Mel: I think it's so good to just admit that you're yeah. That like, it's really hard to be okay with your body. When we live in the world that we live in. I think that's, I guess that's kind of the jest of this whole episode is that I want to make sure that anyone who's lesson feels free to that it's that it's okay.

That you don't feel okay about your body, you know, because we're going through a pandemic where health anxiety is through the roof and we're spending so much time like Google and symptoms and. You know, all that kind of stuff. So we're so, so aware of our bodies, but also we're, we're also living in a world where we are observing ideals and we're looking at all of these kind of high held standards a few day on the internet and social media.

Um, and. Ways that we can shrink and shrink and shrink. Um, and being told that that smaller is always better and, you know, in so many ways. And I just think that, of course, we're not going to feel okay about our bodies when those things are pervading. You know, it's normalize it.

Gabby: Yes. Let's normalize it. Um, yeah, I think that's, that's a good, that's a, probably a good place to wrap this conversation.

Mel: What do you think? Absolutely. But also, I just want to say like, if anyone like, feel similarly or wants to reach out and chat, like please do message us. We love, we love hearing from you and, um, please feel free to message us on Instagram and. Uh, or email us, we get some beautiful emails through and we read them and read them to each other.

Um, and the email that you can use is makinganeffortpodcast@gmail.com. So please feel free to send us a message. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Thanks so much for less than everybody and we will see you next time.