Episode 54: Culty Vibes

You guys gave us some EXCELLENT fodder for this epsiode when you sent us through all the things that give you culty vibes. From peloton to Hillsong, essential oils to coffee - we're discussing all the elements of cult followings with humour and full disclosure that we subscribe to these cults too 😂

Not too many show notes or links for this episode. Hope you all enjoyed!

The Netflix documentary that explores the history of Young Living Essential Oils and the (gently!) culty vibes of the companies origin story. Watch (Un)Well on Netflix.

>>> Click here to read the computer generated transcript (note that the transcript isn't perfect)

Mel: welcome back to the making and effort podcast, the podcast where you get to drop in on a conversation with two friends, discussing all the things they make an effort with, and some of the things they don't take, Abby. Hello.

Gabby: Sorry. I was it's like, she's saying the intro, I'm going to just relax.

Mel: And then it was like a really. Like you've really put your best effort into being super pet peppy. I was

Gabby: trying to come back.

Mel: Oh, okay guys. Here's, here's the thing. So this week, um, we're going to talk about something and you've probably seen on my Instagram because I feel like every person that ever followed me in my whole life replied to this. And no, it's not about party bikes, but it is a bite things that give you culty vibes. Okay. So that fail a little bit cultish. So whether this is like movements or brands or things people are doing or whatever, and the reason that I thought this would be fun is because this week. Oh, don't let us KP gaps. If he needs absolute lightest, yawn.

Gabby: Sorry. I'm still waking up.

Mel: It was like a cartoon yawn. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. This week, a friend of mine, who's a, who's also a coach Kerry, Jarvis out to carry, um, Kim into one of my programs to deliver a guest workshop. And she mentioned this podcast called sounds like a cult, right? So I was like, okay, this is so up my straight, I am absolutely going to listen to this. So I went into this podcast and started listening to like, All these different, different episodes, like science, like the cult, the cult of a skincare, the cult of celebrity churches, this cult of Peloton, um, all this kind of stuff. And I was like, oh, this would make, I mean, they made a whole podcast about this, but we should definitely have an episode about this assume. I got so weird responses. And what I will say is that some of you have straight up. As a way to vent about things that you hear

Gabby: come on. Yeah. You're like,

Mel: I don't, I don't know if this is a cult,

Gabby: but I hit this. Oh my gosh. So, um,

Mel: that was funny to read three, but we had so, so many. And I'm. So what I'm interested in to Gabs and I are going to, I'm going to like flick through my question box re responses and like mentioned some. And I mean, here's the thing. These are your, these are your opinions. We're just going to talk about them. Yep. Okay. So the disclaimer here is that this isn't necessarily what we think. This is what you think we're going to talk about it. And I'm going to actually, I'm interested in why people think that these things are culting. Yeah, I think that's, that's the line of discussion that we want to have more rather than going, oh yeah, that totally is a cult. What makes a cult call? is that right? Is that a question?

Gabby: No, no, no. That is the question we will be discussing. Yeah. I feel like those are

Mel: fair. Why do you think? Okay, so by and large, what do you think the most responses like the most prominent response was to this? I mean, this is a risk. This is a risky question.

Gabby: Okay. I would say maybe like, Like multilevel marketing companies. Maybe if I had to guess

Mel: yes. Or

Gabby: church that did come up a lot. Yes. That's what, that's what I would, I would guess if I had to.

Mel: Yes. There was a lot of, some of them are so funny. You, okay. So there was a little hot about MLMs. Okay. Um, particularly essential oils

Gabby: and essential oils, man. Yeah. People

Mel: really get a culty vibe from the essential oil

Gabby: world.

Mel: Uh, honestly, I should kind of go and like current time and their responses were about essential oils, but I find this so fascinating. Yeah. Why do you think people think I said the whole essential oil companies like doTERRA and also the other one young loving. Why do you think that people find them? So culty,

Gabby: I mean, I don't have a funny answer for this, but I do have thoughts. Uh, well, okay. So like essential oils, the whole thing is like, you're taking your own wellness into your own hands, right? Like you're kind of getting some agency back from, you know, big pharma. And all of that, and you're kind of rewriting your health narrative and the narrative of your family. And so I think people find that very empowering, you know, like that idea of having a bit of agency over their health. And you know, some of the people that I follow who are mega Indus essential oils will even say like online, like I just love being able to have these resources to care for my family that are not. You know, I don't have to make a doctor's appointment. You know, they're like treating ear aches and. Yeah, nausea and, you know, just like a whole list of skincare. Um, and so I think that is part of why essential oils like south. So here's what I would say. No, no, not within of itself, but I think what that does is it kind of, um, It brings like a, like a, uh, a subversive tone to something that, you know, okay. It, it makes it kind of feel subversive and it makes it feel kind of like they're insiders and they're outsiders and they're people who, you know,

Mel: enemies

Gabby: and other people who. Our into big pharma and we're not those people. And you know, it, it brings in ideologies and kind of some dividing lines about who's in, and who's out about this kind of stuff, which to me, if there are clear who's in and who are out. You know, lions that's what starts culty vibes. That's when I get culty vibes.

Mel: So is the title of this podcast episode going to be called the vibes? Yes,

Gabby: we should have a culty culty vibes, alarm or bell, just like

Mel: I thought you were going to say March, we should have it just says culty vibes. Buy that mug. I'd buy that mug. Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. I see what you mean. So it's this kind of like positioning as like, you know, we, we are the masters of our own health. Um, but there are some, you know, like we're, we're against the toxic chemical industry, blah, blah, blah, that positions it. I think there's more to it than that. I think it's more like, There's a sh it's a huge industry. It's a, it's a D I mean, it's definitely like on the outside very much positioned as community, right? There's not. And I guess I don't have enough insider scoop. I have loads of friends that are involved in like essential oil stuff. And I bloody love, I might have an essential oil sitting on my desk, right. This minute I have an essential oil. Um, but it is so interesting how so many people see it as this, like this like culty thing that is, and I guess it's because. Do you think there's like a sales element to it that makes it Calty that you feel like you're being recruited? Yeah. And there's maybe like a secretive element to it as in like, yeah. Remember you got to join up, you got to sign because what you do for a young level, and I know you do have to sign up to be a member to get the, like, to be a distributor. Okay. To like, even by them.

Gabby: Uh, yeah. So if you, you can buy them. So I know, yes. I signed up for this, um, back in like 2014, I remember my friend was like huge into, I had a friend on tour who was like very into essential oils and she was kind of my introduction to it. And she was talking about how she like. Like healed herself of her fevers and she, you know, take like lemon drops in her water every day and like all this stuff. Um, and I was like, yeah, sure. Sign me up. Like, where do I buy these? And she was like, okay. So, and this was kind of again, cozy vibe, alarm bell. You know, she's like, Hey, this is what you're gonna have to do. You're going to have to go on this website and she's like, you can pay full price for these and, or you can buy them at a reduced price, which still felt a little bit expensive to me, especially at the time. Um, and. By becoming a distributor. And I was like, well, I don't really know if I want to like distribute these to people. I just want to buy some thieves. Right?

Mel: Yeah. I just love the saves.

Gabby: Yeah. And she was like, no, you don't have to. All you have to do is like, you know, put in some tax information and sign up and you can still just get the discounted price, which is true. Um, so I just did that and I did get the discounted price and I didn't distribute. I did have a few, like my sister, whenever she wanted an oil, she would buy, like I would buy them upfront for her and then she would pay me back or whatever. But, um, I didn't really do any of the recruiting. Um, but I think that's part, I think you're right. Like the MLM part of it definitely contributes to. The sense that it's a cold,

Mel: um, maybe, and that there's something, there's something, I, I guess there's something to be sad about the idea of like, this is a little bit too good to be true. And the other thing as, not as in like the business side of things, maybe. Yeah. Um, but then also like, I was just thinking about there. When I was looking through the list of all of these things that people have said, there's something about like, when people get really evangelical and fanatical about something, maybe it's like, yeah, maybe it's. Pretty skeptic culture is just like, mm, that feels too good to be true. Or, and that gives a culty vibe when people are so fanatical about a trend or like something that it's like, you can make loads of money selling party, light candles. Do you remember? Do you remember that?

Gabby: I really don't. I don't remember.

Mel: My mom was like, well into the candles, so they used to have like candle parties at our house. Oh. And like, all these ladies from church would come on. Like the candle lady from party light would bring out all the different candles and different candle holders and different sense and all this probably, but like sensei is not something that's similar. Yeah.

Gabby: Yeah.

Mel: Yeah. But anyway, anyway, it was like a real. Um, yeah. Anyway, that, that whole like fanatic thing, cause some of the other stuff that's come up is a rind. Like as often as around other wellness stuff, like CrossFit came up, like there's real, there's real like fanatical people get really addicted to that. Peloton was another one that came up, um, like the kind of. The, the, the community aspect of like, this is who we are. I am a person that does Peloton. I am a CrossFitter yep. Gabby: Or whatever. Yes. And you're not that part of more like, this is why you should be. I also think, especially with like essential oils and particularly young living is it has kind of, I, I'm not gonna go into it in depth because I don't actually have. A firm grasp on all the details and facts, and I don't want to botch it, but I know it has some pretty interesting roots, um, in terms of like, oh, there was a whole documentary on Netflix about it, I think. Um, and I'll link that in the show notes. I forget the name of it. But they talk about the guy who started essential oils had some, some hashtag crazy vibes. Sorry, what did I say? Essential oils essentially was the guy who started young living had some culty vibes and not to say that the carry over to everyone who's ever been a part of it. But I think there was some, from what I remember about the documentary, there was some real, like, you know, I don't know, just like, he's like the head of it. And he was like, kind of like the God and the person that everyone, at least back in the seventies when he started, it was like the, the guy. Yeah. And I think it's kind of, it's drifted from that, but back in that imagine

Mel: so, and I like, honestly, I. Would not be without my safe cleaner. No.

Gabby: Yeah,

Mel: totally. I don't use it essentially as all the time, but it's, there's just something that people are picking up. Cause it's there's so, so many comments here, white essential oils. It's so it's just so interesting. It's the, one of the, it's the, it's the, one of the moment of our generations. Probably most significant MLM and yeah. Um, thing. Isn't it. But I wonder what it is. With the, with the CrossFit on the Peloton and the other one is like people here on Strava or

Gabby: culting distraught. One is real. Oh my gosh. I remember Chris got a Strava watch. I don't know if that's or like a watch that had some Strava capabilities on it. When we went hiking in, um, The Scottish Highlands. Cause we were going to meet you in a lot of like, kind of off-roading and we ended up using it a lot for trying to figure, figure our way out. And, but, um, He would go on there every day. And like, people would have like notes about like everything they've done everywhere. They went like different trails. It's like a big deal. It's a big deal. It felt very much like you were just like tip of the iceberg. Like you could, you know, just really go into the world of Strava.

Mel: What I think Strava is right. This is my theory on Strava. And it's, it's so funny because I started, I started using Strava when I started running last year or in 2020. Um, and, and what I, and it's, if you're someone that like loves achievement, like I have strong and a gram three at am. Uh, side note Enneagram came uploads as called device. Definitely. Yeah, for sure. So we'll come back to that in a minute. That's a little sidebar, but if you're someone who really like thrives on achievement and stuff like that, um, I mean, Strava is addictive in that way. So there's, you know, the challenges that you can play and all that kind of stuff. And I, I remember. One day going out for a run and forgetting to put my Strava on. And I was so fucking, like so disappointed,

Gabby: devastated.

Mel: Exactly. But I was also interested in the kind of people that are on Strava, who would not it's like social media for like dudes and women who are. High achieving athletes. Yeah. Yeah. Who like, like so many of like Dave's friends or my friends' husbands are all over Strava. Like we would be on Instagram. Yeah. That's

Gabby: interesting. I think so too. That's like, go ahead.

Mel: That's what I was going to say. It's like social, it's like social media for like cool athlete dudes or something. Yeah. And. You know, it's not as, but yeah. They're like there Jan, all those kind of functions of that post and they're pictures of themselves in their cycle, or, um, you know, like talking about what they've been listening to while they did their run and all that kind of stuff,

Gabby: but it's not social media. Yeah. You know, I think. Let's just go ahead and move on to, I think drive a Peloton CrossFit falls into this. Um, if we think of any others, like those like physical achievement based communities, part of the reason. And I noticed this part of the reason Chris loves CrossFit or has loved CrossFit in the past is because you can, you can mark out your progress. So, yeah, like you said, if you're someone really highly motivated by that, um, there's just like a world, like, and he's been doing it for six or seven years now and you know, there's like different things like physical. Things he's achieved, like, you know, muscle ups and handstand walks and like all of this stuff that. I had no idea about before he spit, but I do think there is something about like, it's like kind of like an MLMs, some of the stuff that feels a little bit culty or like the levels of like, you know, you get different titles for different ranks and like, you know, then you watch like, Uh, cold documentary and you're like, oh my gosh, they have titles and ranks. I think it's kind of the same thing where it's like, you have different like markers of achievement of like, oh, you're someone who can do this, or who has done that or who, uh, has accomplished this. Or, you know, I don't know if that makes

Mel: sense. Yeah, it does. It does. There's also something about the belonging. Pace is very strong with these kinds of apps and services. So like Peloton, you know, especially over the last few years, I feel like the Peloton surge has been almost like. I was just status to it. If you're in Peloton, isn't there, there definitely is. Like, you can afford a Peloton bike. That is, there's a certain status to that. And then. Like in that community. And then obviously that you track so much on Peloton. Don't you like how many workouts what's your straight come much? You know, how many classes you've done, all that

Gabby: kind of stuff. There are literally medals and like badges that you get for different

Mel: things. So I'm just trying to like, you know, distill what the culty vibes is about. I guess if, I guess I've and I like anything. If, if people are super, you know, like. Vocal and yeah. Evangelical about something. There's a certain level of suspicion around it. I find that most people have. Right. Yeah. What were you going to say? Sorry. No,

Gabby: I, I definitely think the belonging piece does play a huge role in something feeling, you know, A bit like a cold. So like you have to do these things in order to belong, you know, it's like a trade-off or you have to do, do do these things or accomplish these things to, um, to, you know, be a member and have access to this community that we've built. And I think, especially when it comes to like fitness oriented communities, there's like a real, like, There is no, because I think I've had this conversation with you before about some of my Peloton rides, especially, but I've experienced this in other workout classes too, where you just like have that mind body connection moment. Hmm. Where, you know, you just feel like everything is coming together. Like, not that you're like crushing a workout, but like there is something powerful. I think about having a physical experience that is also like corresponding with your emotional, mental state. Brings you a kind of a high and I've experienced, I've experienced it like point like an experienced at outside of Peloton. I do. I love my Peloton and I'm so grateful for it, but like I've experienced it on like running yoga classes, like, and, and I think Peloton in particular, and I think CrossFit to a certain extent, from what I understand about it, I never really got into CrossFit. Um, I know Peloton for sure. Tries to lean into that like more spiritual side. And they're like, are there more connected side in their rides? You know, their choice trying to like reach you as a person. And I think it's part of why I love the Peloton stuff too, is like, I'm like, yeah, like this feels really uplifting. I don't know.

Mel: There's definitely, there's got to be an emotional, like connection element to something. When you think about like legit, like really terrible cults. You know that there has been an emotional attachment. Pace to at Shirley, like where, you know, you feel loved bombed, and then you buy in and then you're, you know, you become one of them. So then what was that? What was the wild wild country? Was that the documentary about that? Like, are they all aware of red?

Gabby: Yeah, I think so

Mel: on Netflix, that was, that was a fascinating watch us that isn't legit cult. Um, Yeah. Some of the other ones. Okay. I'm going to read off.

Gabby: Yeah, go for it

Mel: when they start. So to me, I'm like, that's not a call to me. Just eat. Just are sick of people. Jumping on a trial, cold water, swimming came up a lot, like going, see swimming that made me laugh so much. I was like, stop hitting on people. For Dan, like cold depths in the sea. Oh, it's not a cult. You're just annoyed because everybody seems to be doing that, but that made me laugh a lot. Okay. Um, dry ropes, try ropes

Gabby: as in like what you get in to out of the shower? No. Okay. So Mel: a dry, this is a, this is a real like, uh, UK, um, trend in the last couple of years, I was this big you've probably seen me wearing. Like on the beach or whatever it, if you get out of the sea. So it's like a big tile Tarley line, massive. It's like a hooted tile with RMS

Gabby: CDs.

Mel: It's like waterproof and all the rest of it. So people for real wear them as coats, like. But that's not what they're for. They're for like putting on, when you get out of the say, when you're doing your Weicker cold water, sweat Swetman. But so many people were like hating on the dry ropes. So this has turned it into like an unpopular opinion episodes rather than. I love it. Hey, everyone. We wanted to take a quick break in this episode and let you know that we have a Patreon page NAI. Uh, you know, we love, love, love doing this podcast each week and connected with you and RPA drew on page is a way for you to get to hang out with. Um, and for us all to be together even more and help us cover the cost of running the podcast. So we can keep our sponsored ads to a minimum it's just $5 or four pounds a month to access it. And we have some really exciting plans for spending more time with you guys there this year. So when you become a patron, you'll get access to our monthly, making an effort magazine where we're going to be sharing all of our best recommendations for food and books and TV and music and what we're wearing and all that good stuff. You'll get. At patron, only extra video podcasts from us each month and an invitation to join us for our annual making an effort virtual cocktail party, where we get to hang out together and meet each other more. So if you want to join the making and effort gang, you can find a link to our patron and the show notes. Or you can go to www.patrion.com forward slash making an effort quote. I can't wait to see you inside. Then we also had attachment parenting.

Gabby: Oh my gosh. That came up a lot. Also gentle parenting. I thought it could fall

Mel: into that. I think that's probably the same kind of thing. So this idea of like breastfeeding baby wearing. Oh, I'm scared and all that kind of all that kind of vibe, people were all say, oh, like message in a bite, like this super culty vibes from attachment parenting. Even though I did it myself. Honestly, the point of messages that said, okay, hands up, I am involved in this cult, but this is a super culty. And then they're like the Enneagram or like, oh my gosh. Or like small batch coffee or,

Gabby: oh my God. That's amazing. Um, no, I feel like I, again, it comes down to that lake. I'm doing all the things that you need to do to be a part of this, and you're not doing them. And I'm going to tell you about why you should be doing them. I think that always gives people a culty vibes. Do

Mel: you know what I'm, I'm thinking about just as we're talking, it's, there's a mirror, a moral superiority to a lot of this, this

Gabby: and that. Yeah. That's a good

Mel: way of phrasing that. So attachment parenting, a bit of moral superiority. I, a hundred percent ascribe to attachment parents and I was a breastfeeding baby on like bed. Co-sleeping. Mom who put essential oils on our children. Like I did the whole thing now. That is, that is I subscribe to it completely, but I was like, uh, I felt like I was a friend. I'm a member of that

Gabby: cult. We're just calling it a cold. Now that you've convinced us.

Mel: Um, but yes, that there was definitely, it definitely comes like attachment parenting, um, like essential oils, uh, even down to the small batch or. Coffee, you know, coffee,

Gabby: curiosity that there's a moral

Mel: superiority to like you, like, you're not drinking this coffee the way it is intended to be tested. You are not, you are stirring its granules into a cup. Oh, you absolute Savage. What are you high on earth? Can you test coffee in this format? If you're not tasting it dripped through seven different festivals of,

Gabby: oh my gosh, I don't know filters,

Mel: but yes, the coffee thing came up a little, whole foods.

Gabby: Definitely. I mean, It's just like anything where you can kind of create a, it's create a little world for it and, you know, Because Chris was our coffee was one of Chris's, uh, obsessions when we were on the road together, because like, we just couldn't have a ton of hobbies and you need a hobby on the road. You do mentally.

Mel: I totally had an arrow pressed and they oh,

Gabby: Well, we still have like three arrow presses. We had, he had a So like, I, there was one summer where we just had like, wall-to-wall fly days, which might means. You get up, you fly to a location, you play a show, you sleep, go, you know, get in bed at 1:00 AM and get out of bed. Some hotel at 7:00 AM, go to the airport or earlier fly again, land, play three peat for three months. I used to dread the summers for this very reason, because it was absolutely awful. So you just find these, you find coping mechanisms and Chris's was. I refuse to drink shit coffee. I get that. So he would travel with beans and because you know, which, okay, fine. So it was not enough, like you would imagine. Okay. You're on the road. You're on the go. Would you know? Just get your beans. Pre-ground no, he had it grinder, a hand grinder on his shirt. I was going to say it was a very, very fancy hand grinder because he can't like Joe's fees.

Mel: Allianz expensive. Yes. It was precious Bain.

Gabby: Subject them to an electric grinder. Like the brutality is like massacre. So he would just sit there, like painstakingly we'd be like in these like airport gates. And he would just be question so then you're like, okay. He realized very quickly he needed hot water for, you know, his arrow presses or whatever in this, in these airport gates. And after a few failed attempts at finding hot water that lived up to his expectations at the right temperature for that. Starbucks or whatever. He started bringing a small portable kettle, and this will go. So you got a kettle grinder, a couple different coffee, like he had, I got a travel size at pour over. That was collapsible. He had a, um, an arrow press and filters for all of these things for like a whole summer. Like that was his whole. Just a coffee cart, a Kindle, basically

Mel: that is SU that is culty because you have, that is really dedicated. Like my, my friend paid high-paid if you lesson, he, I remember. Anytime Peyton NAIFA ever came to our house. They were our neighbors for years. They just moved out and I'm really sad about it. But anyway, Pete was really into his coffee, worked for like a really amazing coffee company in the sys and really into his coffee. And anytime they came to our house, like, I know how to do a basic pour over. I can do an arrow press. I can do. Um, what's the other one? Like a Chemex, or would. But I don't know the techniques. I don't know. Like, I, I very rarely will weigh things properly and people are really dickish. That's the weighing scales. Who do they have scales

Gabby: scales. Yeah. I knew I was forgetting one important element to this

Mel: fricking like a science experiment, what was happening and like, they time it, like they put the timer on their phone and you can only. Poor for so long. And then you stop. And then, oh my days, and I used to have such anxiety, MEK and paid a coffee because I was like, I know this is going to taste like shit to you, even though it's really good coffee, but it's been grind. And my, and my electric grinder, or I bought it pre grind and you are going to know this. Um, it's very stressful and he's the kind of guy that I remember. Um, go into their house and having a cup of coffee. And he was like, Ts so much better. Ava, doesn't it? And she's like, oh yeah, that's that's that's way better. It was like, what, what, what did you do? And he like, had bought these chemicals to like, do something to the water because the water was slightly hard. So he was like, this coffee isn't tasting. Right. And so he actually like treated the water before. Gosh. Yeah. that's that's that's culty paid. I'm sorry. That was culty, man.

Gabby: I'm like it, we're just calling it our friends and family. Now that's the stage of this podcast we're at,

Mel: but yet I appreciate it. I do love a really finely, um, Mirrored process through a million steps coffee. I do. I do love it. I mean,

Gabby: yeah, I do too. A Colona and smalls in bath is a coffee shop that we've been to a few times when we've been on tour and they, so like when you go and I think more coffee shops do this now, but they were the first coffee shop I encountered that did this where it's like, you could only order certain beans. Don in certain methods. So like we will only do the Ethiopian via an arrow press. And if you want to have a, you know, a, an espresso based drink, like here are the beans you can choose from. And I was like, I don't know, I want a cappuccino, but at the only place I've ever been to where. Been made a coffee and, you know, they always have the tasting notes where it's like, tastes like licorice breeze butterscotch. And I'm like, no, it tastes like coffee. That's the only place I've ever been where like one of the tasting notes was strawberries. And I was like, I'm getting strawberries. Like I can't even, I can't even get that was like wine. Like I, and I think, or sororities or strawberries. I'm like, I know, I know it was like, this is actually mind blowing. So when it, when it does work, it is kind of cool. But, um, yeah, that's very cool coffee. I'm here. Coffee call stands. Yeah.

Mel: You want to make me a fancy coffee with your filtered neutralized, Alco alchemy water then? Yeah, I'll take it for you. It's delicious. Um, vegans came up a lot.

Gabby: Um, yeah, I actually get a moral superiority thing, moral

Mel: superiority thing, vacants. Um, any gram? Yeah. Oh, what do you think it is? What do you think it is about the Enneagram

Gabby: that might have something to do with it? Um, and this is like big pointy star with lines and this circle around.

Mel: Okay. If I was a kid, my mom would never have, let me look at this.

Gabby: You know, I was actually having this conversation with Chris the other day because someone was in my dance. Like every time I mentioned the Enneagram on my socials, I get somewhere and being like, well, you know, they're called, right. And I'm like, they're

Mel: there,

Gabby: there's a cost. And then they give me like, they'll send me some, like, links about it. And I'm like, I don't care. But I also am kind of like I'll read them and be like, yeah,

Mel: well, okay. Why, why, what is it your rating that makes you go yeah. Check Gabby: site? No, I mean, not for real, for real, but I guess like, in terms of like, Culture today. So the Enneagram, the Enneagram has its roots. And then we did, we talked about this a little bit and like Catholic mysticism, I think. And even, maybe even beyond that, or it was like adopted by Catholic mystics anyway. So it does have like the spiritual element, which whatever, but then, um, in. Just non-spiritual cultural terms, the way we use it now, it's like, it's the shorthand. I think of it all. Like if you're, if you're in and you know it, you know it, and you can like easily access the short handle, the shorthand, if you don't know it, like we, you know, my husband and I. I have a little online community called story. It's like a faith-based community. And for awhile, we were like, you know, just talking about Enneagram, like, you know, oh, we're like such forests or whatever. And we finally had someone like reach out to us and be like, I have no idea what you're talking about. Like,

Mel: I feel like so much. And you're like, how could you not know?

Gabby: Oh, man. So dumb, but they were super nice about it. Yeah. Ding, ding, ding, for sure. That's where the alarm bell comes in or the, um, but I think that's what it is. It's like that lingo,

Mel: the shorthand that makes such sense when you said that, that term, that kind of like, you can talk about it and have inside jokes about it. Like there's something about that that feels very culty. I actually just looked up the definition of cult and like what makes something a Colton. Kind of read this, so I should have done that.

Gabby: This is the kind of episode you sign up for it.

Mel: This is the kind of podcast you signed it. And I say, cool, episode, episode, sorry, this is the kind of cult. Yeah, we have, we actually have a cult. It's called our Patrion.

Gabby: There's join. You can join. Actually. It was just the one level because we're equal opportunities

Mel: where we're totally all about the equity. Okay. Um, a cult by definition is a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object or a person or thing that is popular or fashionable among a particular group or section of society. Um, and then the question. What makes something a cult? The answer that Kim might hear was a cult is a group or movement held together by a shared commitment to a charismatic leader or to an ideology. A shared commitment to an ideology would definitely ring true for the coffee cult.

Gabby: Like pretty much everything we've talked about so

Mel: far to drive. Um, say swimming. I

Gabby: still, I, I still reject that one, but I think it is funny.

Mel: Yes. Another one that actually came up and this came up in different variations, um, was, and I talk about this a lot is like toxic entrepreneurship and like the passive income and the 5:00 AM club and the four hour workweek and the boss bibs and the. You know, private jets and all that shit, um, that is called D and it's, it's very like MLM and yeah, I guess that, and th and that sounds like I have seen so much of this, because that is my industry. So much of this. Like, it actually makes me shutter a little bit, the idea of like, I'm a coach teaching you how to be a coach, so you can coach other people to be coaches. Gabby: Uh,

Mel: okay. I mean, there are some, I mean, I'm not, I'm not like slit in any kind of legit coaching training obviously, but there's kind of like, I'm just going to show you what to do to make, have like five figure months. Um, All of that shit.

Gabby: And this is the same with MLMs and even a lot of this other stuff, it's like, it's all about like what, you know, you get what you, you get out of it, what you put in. So it's like all that comes back down to you. And if you don't get the things that are promised, then like it's because you somehow didn't do something. Right. And it's, you just didn't have the willpower. You didn't have the whatever. That you were supposed to have. And it's like, you know, diets can be like that too, where it's like, it all comes down to like, whether you just like towed the line appropriately for long enough, whatever. And that kind of like shame culture. Maybe me is part of what this leans into a little bit too, is like, if you don't do these things, how much shame or rejection or how much are you ostracized for

Mel: that? Totally. And there was, yeah, it's like, or, or the ostracization is not being elevated, I think are not being held up. So the other, the other one than this on a similar fan was the law of attraction. Like people who are really into manifestation and law of attraction stuff, that was a big, like culty culty vibe that came through, um, which is. Very much rooted in white privilege, shall we say, I mean, a hundred percent rooted in white privilege. Yes. Um, the other that came through a lot, which. Actually attacked by was air fry, air fryers,

Gabby: air fryers articles.

Mel: They are coffee for sure. I mean, you only have to put the word air fryer into tech talk and you're like, whoa, people committed. People are committed to the content creation around air fryers. Whoa. That's

Gabby: awesome. Are like, we're going to look back in 15 years at air fryers and just laugh. And we put Mel: the George Foreman of. Of the 2020s. Yep. Um, yep. Okay. I'm going to go through my list and I'm going to what I'm going to do. Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to read something out and you're going to say cult culty or not culty. Okay. Okay. Gabby: I like this. Okay.

Mel: Marvel.

Gabby: Ooh. Not cult-y

Mel: okay.

Gabby: Just nerdy as heck. Yeah. Um, Wordle, culty. Ooh. Okay.

Mel: Um,

Gabby: Paddleboarding in Northern Ireland? Yes.

Mel: It's such a

Gabby: gold. I am sorry. I have dinner JAG, like silly wheat, Chris and I, we are not there. We're not under the night. A hundred percent of the time, normally go back to two times a year, but with the pandemic, it's been less than that. And so we've been like dipping our toe in and out of like Northern Irish culture, you know, for the last two years. And it's really funny when you're away for such a long time and then come back, like everyone's into a new thing. And paddle boarding was one that really took us by surprise sees when they was one of those things. It was like, it went from like zero to a hundred, like everyone's doing.

Mel: That'd be way. Um, there's some of these that are quite American, so I don't really

Gabby: know. All right. Hit me up. What that, what they are Amway. Oh, Datsun. That's an MLM. That's like your original MLM. So I'm going to go home. Okay. Hardcore. Yes. Okay.

Mel: Um, collagen products.

Gabby: Nah. Nah,

Mel: no. Okay. This one actually took me to the fair. We're going to need to explain this for the UK listeners, but this just wrote the word she just wrote shepherd.

Gabby: Oh, my God.

Mel: Oh, so

Gabby: you feel like the shiplap didn't translate doesn't translate

Mel: to the UK because I said it's a TFE psychosis. So ship, so shiplap. I don't know if I can probably. So it's like. It's just wood. Yeah. It's just,

Gabby: yeah. Type of sighting. So it's like, it's a wooden siding that the is kind of decorative in your home. It's it goes horizontally. And there's kind of like a little bit of a groove in between each panel. And it was really popularized by, um, Chip and Joanna Gaines, which also came up, which also came up, which is like the Magnolia cult for real, definitely a hundred percent. They even have like their own Mecca at the lake, you know, a little like their Magnolia market, whatever farms. Anyway, um, I say this with love, uh, But yes. So the shiplap was very popular. I think it started getting really popular in 2014, 2013. And it's a, it's a feature you would have found in like traditional Southwestern homes, maybe. So

Mel: like, then everybody started to push it, blew up. Oh. And yes, they're inside their houses in their coffee shops and churches and everything. So that's

Gabby: actually a way to kind of like make an accent wall, you know? Yeah. Oh, it made me laugh

Mel: so, so much. Um, okay. Uh, oh, that made me laugh. Uh, okay. Culture. You're not cult Taylor swift.

Gabby: Yes. Culty. Okay.

Mel: Natural wine.

Gabby: Mm, no,

Mel: no. Okay. Kardashians. Yes. Kenya west.

Gabby: Yes. Um,

Mel: home births.

Gabby: Heck yes,

Mel: please. Also, also refer back to attachment parenting. Thank you. Yup. Yup. Um, at the totally subscribed. What if had a home birth? If I could, uh, church communities and, uh, air quotes doing life

Gabby: together. Oh yeah. A hundred percent guilty.

Mel: Um, barefoot shoes.

Gabby: Oh my gosh. Yes. Oh, no, no, no. Just no, just no.

Yep. That don't do it.

Mel: That's a, that's a cult. Um, let's see. Hillsong. Um,

Gabby: I, yeah, pass. I'm going to pass. I'm going to

Mel: pass. Play the fifth. Yeah. Okay. I'll say cult. I'll go ahead. I have nothing to lose here, cult. Um, let's see a whole 30.

Gabby: Um, no, no.

Mel: Okay. Um, Disney

Gabby: adults. Yes.

Mel: Can I also just say to know he contributed several contributions,

Gabby: several

Mel: question box entries. Our previous producer,

Gabby: Steven, Stevie Mitchell. Mel: I think it must mess us. I know. Hi Steve. Hi, Steve. Um, let's see. Um, who's on

Gabby: paternity leave right now. So congratulations to

Mel: Steve isolation, Steve and Lanaya. Um, 21 pilots. I don't know what that is. It's

Gabby: a, it's an abandoned, but I wouldn't know enough to know if it was cult-y. Um, okay.

Mel: Curly girl method method. Ooh, Gabby: that's a good one. Um, yeah, sure. I think so. I kind of think so.

Mel: Okay. The happy planner community. Oh, I don't know about the happy planet. No, but definitely sounds

Gabby: like a cult it's does the community at the end really, really like anything. It was like a co at the end,

Mel: these people have all been like the happy platter community of which I'm in. I'm totally buy into. Yeah. So many people said that. Um, let's see, I'm going to find one more, one more, one more. Okay. Last one. The bachelor.

Gabby: Ooh. Uh, no, no, but no. Okay. Here retract, retract. I think the bachelor world, like if you're an in, it is culty. If you're a viewer, not so much.

Mel: Oh, that felt good to do. That was fun. Thanks guys. Yeah. Thanks everybody, everybody for all your really fun. Around the submissions to that. Oh, I wish we could get into depth and be more journalistic about some of these to find out if they are legit cults. Um, but that was really fun here. And your hair and your thoughts on those also? No shade. We're just, we're just,

Gabby: we're just chatting. And no one get no one getting their panties in a bunch. We're just, we're just having a little chat.

Mel: I think we're up. I think we're okay. I think people know where we're really not having to go. Cause we subscribed to all of the above that we've talked to most, every single thing I'm like Kenya. Oh, okay.

Gabby: Or just like, I really appreciated being introduced to new Colts in this episode. Yeah, this is just like a cold advertising episode. So if you didn't know about some of these, go ahead and look them

Mel: up. Yeah. Dive right in and BSN. Okay. Thanks everybody for this stone. We're going gonna, we're going to sign off and see you next time. Bye.

Gabby: Thank you. So, so much for listening to this week's episode of the making and effort podcast, it feels like such an honor to get to connect with you all every week like this. And we just want to say a massive thanks. You can always get in touch with us at our email address. Hello@makinganeffortpodcast.com or you can get in touch with us individually on our Instagram accounts. In our DMS, you can get in touch with Mel at Mel Wiggins, or you can get in touch with me at gap Llewellyn. And if you're feeling really generous today, we. Be so grateful if you took the time to like, and subscribe and maybe even leave a review and maybe even share this episode with your friends on your social media, um, those kinds of things go such a long way for podcasters like us. And, uh, it would be such an honor to receive that from you. So thank you. And we will talk to you next week. Bye. Um,