Episode 25: Finding Home & Living Cross Culturally

>>> Click here to read the computer generated transcript (note that the transcript isn't perfect)

Mel: Welcome to the making an effort podcast. This is the podcast where you get. Sit in on a couple of friends talking about all the things that they are making an effort with and a whole bunch of the things they're not. Um, welcome back everybody. Um, high gaps.

Gabby: Hey everyone. Hi.

Mel: Yeah, hot. It's going hot. And I know that you know that, and I know that you feel that yourself on the other side of the world, I'm going to not complain about it today. Cause I'd done enough of that last week. Um, I will say that I'm in a better mood. I no longer grumpy Mel,

Gabby: um, to, to be fair you like, I don't know if Americans know that like most homes in Northern Ireland don't have air conditioning in them because. You don't need it most of the time. Right? Is that right?

Mel: Yeah. I mean, that is true, but I, I, I actually heard something recently. Someone was talking about this yesterday that some of the new build houses that they're building in, like the south of England and stuff are. Are automatically going to have like temperature control and air conditioning, no global warming of the, well, yeah, I mean the climate change, the rising temperature of the earth. Yeah. All of that is contributing. So it's interesting that they're kind of go in that way, but it's, I'll tell you what a long walk around the freezer aisle at your local Asda is just, it's just the ticket. This arms in the air. Oh, come on. Surrender. Everybody just understands each other in that island.

Gabby: Everyone's like suddenly taking long trips to Iceland.

Mel: Oh yes. Um, this the shelf, not the kitchen, not the

Gabby: country, although we would do that as well, if we could. Yeah, I

Mel: know. Uh, so today we are, we're going to talk about something that kind of came up in DMS when we put it. Shout out about potential episode. A lot

Gabby: of people ask asked for this one

Mel: randomly. Yeah. So when we say a lot of papers, Do we reckon, I

Gabby: think like for pizza times, but like that's a good fridge. Yeah. To get that right. Any repeats? I'm not saying like four or 500 people were like, messaging us about this, but

Mel: do you know the other thing, whenever people like on Instagram are like, oh, so many people have been asking me about these shoes. Here's the Lego and you're like, did four people ask me? Yeah. It's okay. So many people have been asking me about, so anyway. Yeah. So the, well we're going to try and talk about it from our own experience. Today is growing. Um, cross culturally or alternative culturally and different countries and that kind of thing. So it's, it's a mutual experience that we share and we thought it might be interesting for us to just talk about that, to what that was like. And also I thought it would be cool to what someone else had suggested we talk about, which is. Is the idea of feeling at home somewhere. Yeah. And, and what makes you feel like you're home? Um, yeah, so that's what we're going to, I'm sorry,

Gabby: I'm just laughing because that actually, so there's Maisie, I think her name's Maisie Peters, the D do you know the song? I'm going to look it up, but, um, there's a song called a place where he made, which if, if people have it. Hold on. I'm going to literally look it up right now. Place we were made. Yeah. It's by Maisie Peters, go listen to the song. It's the ultimate nostalgia song. Chris, literally tears up every time he hears it. It's one of his favorite songs of the last while, but it's kind of, it kind of goes into like growing up in like being in high school and like putting on makeup with your friends and like trying to get out of your small town and. Like, she's a fantastic lyricist, but Chris was like, does this song even like, mean anything to you? Cause like you have, he's like, you're not really from anywhere. No,

Mel: that is harsh.

Gabby: It was like, you don't have a long, well, he's like, he's like, you know, for me, I listened to the song and I like him. Like in my head, I'm like picturing like late night drives back from like, you know, people's houses and like certain street lights and, you know, all of those kinds of like little vignettes that you have in your memory of what it is like to grow up somewhere and to like come from somewhere. And he's like, but you've moved so much to even have like a place where you're like, oh, this, yeah, this is the place I was made. Kind of a thing. I

Mel: dunno. Is that overrated? Is it, is it just based in nostalgia like, is that, I think that's really cool to think about though, because when I think of those things that you just said, you know, like the drive homes from this place or the particular street lights, like I still had those experiences. I just have them in a bunch of different places. Yeah. Um, and so I still have deep nostalgia for the street I grew up in until I was eight. I still have. The, the deep connection to, you know, the, you know, the main strip of the, of the, the town that I was an adolescent and, and, and in Canada, you know, I think that, yeah, well maybe we can get into that for sure. But, so you're, you're kind of. Story with that is you were what age? Whenever you guys left the states to go to Uzbekistan.

Gabby: I was seven and we were there until I was 16 or like a month before I turned 16. And so the whole time you were there? Uh, yeah, like we had, um, we had visited home for like a month here and there, but yeah. Um, for the whole time, um, my parents were humanitarian aid workers, so they, um, opened the internet cafe, actually the first internet cafe in our town that we were in and like, um, helped start a school and stuff like that. It was pretty cool, actually, the stuff that they got up to. And, um, I went to the school that my dad helped start. I went to middle school there. And yeah. Then we moved back when I was about high school age, so that our back to the states to Minnesota, where my, uh, where I was originally from, and then I lived there for just two or three years before going to college. And I stayed in my college town for five years. And then from there, I moved to Atlanta for two years on the road with Chris. And now I've been in Nashville. For almost seven years, six or seven years. Gosh, I don't even know how long it's been. So that's kind of my, uh, cross-cultural journey, but yeah, no, I mean,

Mel: yeah, so similar. Yeah. And that way aren't we, like, I was eight, when we moved to Canada, we did three years. Then we came back home for three years. Then we moved to out again when I was, I think I w so I was like just starting high school. So that would have been what 13. Yeah. So like 13, I think,

Gabby: well, you guys have different school ages or

Mel: than I know, I know what can everybody just not do the same schools? Sometimes

Gabby: I feel like when I talked to some people over there, it's like, oh yeah. And then our five-year-old just started high school. Like

Mel: I sometimes I'm like the opposite. Yep. So my nine-year-old is just starting primary school and I'm like, oh, why? Um, so yeah, I just, yeah, so high school did all the high school and in Canada and then left, I left for a short stint back to go to university. And I think I've mentioned that before in Belfast and then lasted six months there. And realized that I was not cut out for a university, let alone a theology degree. Um,

Gabby: I can't imagine you taking a theology degree. You're trying to,

Mel: Imagine me sitting in, a Greek in Hebrew class. I was like, say what? Um, and this is coming from like eat, don't do religious education really in high school and college, but like, it's not like a big component of the curriculum. Yeah. But yeah. So I went back to Canada, worked for a bit and then went to university in Canada for a year. Did that whole, like, you know, north American university life and then left there and went to London and then was in London for like, I don't know, like four years. And then met, Dave, and he dragged me kicking and screaming back to Northern Ireland. And then I kind of managed to wrangle him to go to London for a year. And then I became pregnant with Levi and we we've like settled at home when I was pregnant with Levi. So, um, yeah. So we've been around the houses. Haven't my a little bit, um, Quite literally many houses. I wondered if you, I wonder if you have, like, do you have particular memories of that first? Like seven-year-old Gabby arriving in this like middle Eastern country? I do

Gabby: actually. I've re I've written it down a lot. Not like anywhere publicly. Privately, um, because it was such a sensory experience. Like I think a lot of your early memories are super sensory more than like a linear, you know, story timeframe. Um, but like I re we, we landed at night and I remember, um, at the time I I've been told that, uh, the city at the Tashkent, the city that we landed. It's very different from when I was there. But at the time in 97 there was like, no airport gates. So you just like walked off the ladder. And I remember just like being hit with this like warm blast of like Sandy air. And you're like, okay, this is different. Um, and like, I remember everything kind of smelling like cheap cigarettes. Like in a really good way. Cause I love this. Like to this day, love the smell of cheap cigarettes. And like, I don't know, you know, the smell that like when the sun sets and it's been really hot during the day, but then it leaves and you can almost like smell the residual warmth. Do you know what I'm talking about? I do. Yeah. Like you could, like, that was very much the vibe. Anyway. It was so foreign. Um, I had never really been out. I hadn't been out of the states before that. Um, and it's just very different from Minnesota. Um, yeah, I don't know. What about you? What was that first like, were you excited to move or were you.

Mel: Hmm. I think there was a bit of excitement and you know, what's weird is that around that time, and I was thinking about this, like, and this is going to maybe make Northern Ireland side. A bit like a war zone and I'm not in any way, like Cleveland, that way was sort of like refugees or anything, but we absolutely, we're S we're in the thick of a kind of uprising of tension in Northern Ireland in the early 90 days. And particularly in the time that I lived in, it was really pretty contentious at the time. I remember the, the night before we left. So we sold our house and we moved in with like a lady from our church, um, and to her, like two bedroom flat. And we stayed there for, I don't even know how long it could have been two weeks. It could have been two months. I have, no, I can't remember. Um, but I remember the last night before we had to fly out. And the helicopters were like coming over the heist because there, there obviously was some like big stuff going on. Um, you know, like people were yeah. Just like, yeah, there was trouble. Yeah. And I remember feeling really scared, but really relieved that the next day we were getting too late. Wow. Yeah, I do. I really, I really remember that failing and it wasn't like, and it was because I was at, you know, um, um, and then I remember like at that time, I don't know if you have this, but like suitcases were different. There were no whales. Oh my gosh.

Gabby: Were these

Mel: like big, like leather suitcases, you know? And like, you know, we have. Probably like five suitcases and a couple of like trunks, like big chests, um, that like, yeah, like, and in fact, one of, one of the chests that we used is my current TV tip. Oh, which is kinda cool. And it's actually, my dad took it when he went to like minister training when he was like in his twenties as well. So it's like, you know, family history pace, but, um, I just remember there being so much luggage. And the, at the airport, when we arrived, I remember like my parents being really stressy about, you know, immigration and phases and, um, and the luggage and making sure we had everything and then these two children with them. And, um, so my parents are going to work for the salvation army, which is a denomination that I grew up in as a, as a church. And they're going similarly to your parents as social workers, or like, you know, um, community. Community workers to do some work with, you know, people that were on the poverty line and that needed support and that community. So, um, The church leaders that run the outpost of the community aspect that my dad was going to be heading up that came to meet tomatoes in Toronto at the airport. And that's really funny is that because Northern Ireland is so small, like a drive from the top to the bottom of Northern Ireland is, you know, an hour and a half. Right? Yeah. Or whatever. The drive from the airport to Chatham, where, where you're going to live is three ours. And we were just like, whoa. So these people ended up like these leaders, these like church leaders took petty on us. And like, we stayed in a hotel halfway. Oh, it might have been that. It was like quite late at night. Anyway, we were really tired, but I remember, and that was like the first time really? The first time I think that I ever stayed in a hotel, huh? Like a proper hotel because that, I mean, it just, wasn't a thing here. Like I don't even know if there really, really was many hotels in Northern Ireland in the early nineties. Like probably more Arabic, not Airbnbs, but bay in base or guest houses and stuff, but no like hotels with pools and ice machines and all that kind of stuff that you see in the movie. So yeah. I use it. Yeah. The days. And, um, and so I have a real, like, vivid memory of that. And I think my dad drove right out to get actually I think, and that was a interesting experience because it's the other side of the car and the other side of the road. Um, and we had some hairy, hairy moments. And in terms of vehicles and cars and driving, where he was just like going full pelt, Dyna what we call a geo carriage way on the other side of the road. Oh my goodness. Complete stop.

Gabby: Yeah. Wait. Yes. On the other side of the highway. Oh,

Mel: my gosh. Well, it wasn't, it wasn't like a main highway, but it was like a secondary and a highway. Yeah, I remember that. And, oh my gosh. And I remember early, early days and two. Yeah. Band and Chatham, I think we went to like a Walmart or Kmart or something like that and went in to get a bunch of stuff and came out and couldn't remember what the car looked like. Can remember. Oh, like if like what car it was, where we parked it, we ha we had to call someone whose car we were borrowing. For them like Mrs. PA pay a phone call. I mean, like to tell us what the car looked like so we can locate it in the parking lot. My goodness. So just the, you know, I just remember a little bit of calamity and those early days. Yeah. Yeah. But what was your like, adjustment, like when that. When you were so way, you know, you're so tiny. I mean,

Gabby: what do you remember? Yeah, obviously for us there was like a language barrier, right. So I think that added like another layer of feeling a little bit out of place as a kid. Um,

Mel: I remember,

Gabby: and I mean, as, as kids, you kind of pick up languages really fast. Um, at least that was our experience. Um, And my parents were just very much like, okay, the way you're going to learn, you know, who's back is you're going to go to school. And it was, it literally was like, you know, one week I didn't understand a single word. And then. Six months in, I was like doing homework assignments and it's just so I think it's so fascinating how kids can just really adapt even like their brains and like their language skills, you know? I mean, I wouldn't say it was my language, my language, my was language was actually terrible. The whole time we were there.

Mel: Um, Gabby: I ended up transitioning from an Uzbek. So because was part of the former Soviet union, there was a huge Russian population there. And a lot of people spoke Russian and a lot of people assumed I was Russian just because I was a little bit lighter skinned. I had freckles, I have freckles and like a little, like, I don't have black hair, which most people they're like native Uzbeks would have black hair. When people didn't know where we're at a place, me, they would assume I was Russian or Turkish. So there's a lot of Turkish immigrants there. But, um, as a result, I ended up just learning Russian. Um, and I, I ended up switching to a Russian school, um, just because when you're, you know, when you're 14 or 12, like all you want to do is fit in. Sure. And while I didn't really fit in anywhere. Um, I fit in more with the Russian school. There was a lot less, I felt a little less ostracized there, but that was that this is going beyond the question. Um, I think, I think, um, so those early days of moving, I don't know, like it's, it's a, it is a really weird experience to move somewhere that is so unlikely. Um, where you grew up like languages, different cultures, different surroundings are different. It's a very, um, I don't even, I don't want to use the word jarring, but you know, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's, it is a huge upheaval. Um, and I, I think it's kind of those early days of being somewhere new that. To this day, make me so adventure hungry all the time. Like, I don't know. I remember we moved back when we moved back to the states permanently, the thing I missed the most was hearing, like, I didn't enjoy hearing people speaking English around me the whole time. Like I was like, no, this is so weird. I'm not surrounded by any other language than English, especially in Minnesota. There's just like such a lack of cultural sites diversity there. Sure. So, I mean, yeah, you just to go from this country where people speak multiple languages and they're kind of, you know, weaving several different languages in and out and trying to figure out like you would even go to the, like the local market. And depending on where you were in the country, people would, and people would try and test different languages with each other. Like, they'd go in with Uzbek. If that didn't work, they would try Russian if fresh and didn't work, they would try try Tajik. Um, and I don't know, just like that stuff was so different coming back to the states and having everything feeling so homogenized, at least where I was living. But I don't even remember what your question was anymore. I just started going down memory lane, and now here we Mel: are. No, I like it. And I'm also interested, like, did you find like the people that you were meeting were really fascinated by your Americanness? Like was there that kind of thing ?

Gabby: I'm sure it's not like this anymore. So right before we got there, the Soviet union had just kind of disbanded in 91. So they had only had like six years before we got there of like really having access to the rest of the world in a really meaningful way. So it's, I'm sure it's a lot more global now, um, in terms of people coming and going, but when we got there, You know, it was, we were just so foreign, like people who weren't from Uzbekistan didn't travel to Uzbekistan very often. Um, and so yeah, we did, we did stick out like a sore thumb for sure. Um, As a kid is like, you just never want that.

Mel: No, but I also remember failing like it like, well, maybe it's different in that, in that really kind of. Hugely different non Western culture, but you know, there was something of a commodity to us, I reckon. Yeah. Oh, for sure. When we moved from Northern Ireland to Canada, it felt like it was almost like the card that you could play, you know, as, as a, as a kind of opener or. Yeah. And interest pace, even as a child, I re you know, there was part of me that was like, oh, I just want to be Canadian. Like, I don't want to have this, like, uh, you know, like have to, you know, but, but quickly you realize that. It doesn't matter where you are probably in the world. Everybody's interested in Irish affiliated PayPal,

Gabby: literally. I'm sure you guys were like celebrities. I mean, if you're in, if you're in the states, you would have bet would be like, oh my gosh, this adorable little Irish family is like our community and we should totally have them over for dinner. And yeah. Their accents.

Mel: And so, and also, and also was so interesting is that you end up and you probably, Chris probably finds this as well. Um, and the rest of the guys in the band, but just like the real. D like the real, like exhaustion of explaining that you're not quite Irish Northern Irish, but then you can also just, you know, when some Patrick's day comes around, you can just call it polite that Irish card and, um, and kind of lean hard into that, that aspect of things as well. But yeah, and I just re I think what was something that I was thinking about. And I was thinking about this episode was like, we weren't here when we lived here. Like we weren't poor. Okay. So we weren't like, we weren't like a per family. We were kind of very like working middle class. Yeah. But I really noticed when we moved to Canada, the, like the. Elements of luxury lifestyle that we're just, we're just, we're not a thing here at all. And Northern Ireland, you know, like some of the stuff that we would have considered real luxury was a really normal and Canada. So, you know, the kind of cars people had or the kind of houses people had, or even down to, I was talking about this with Dave yesterday. Like, um, the fact that like everybody has. Pop or soda and like couns and their fridge always. And I was like, that would never happen in my house in Northern Ireland. Like you would have, like, you would barely get to get a can of Coke if you were at a restaurant. Yeah. You know, but, and like my, my parents' best friends have a fridge in their basement that is fully dedicated to gym. Just soda, a little different sodas, like stuff like that. Or like, um, Uh, like people haven't swim in pools at their house. I was gonna

Gabby: say, this swimming pool thing is, are you a movie

Mel: star? Like, and the fact that people that like would drive to Florida for holidays and things like that, I'm like what, you know, like it just blew my mind that there was all of this access to these kind of very, what I felt luxurious or like, um, I don't know, like, like a TV show come to life, kind of fail. Um, and, and at the time, when we, when we first moved to Spain, like for the first time that we were there, we lived in an apartment above the community, uh, offices that my dad worked in, where there was like the food bank and the, all that kind of stuff. Um, It was just, I mean, it was a lovely apartment, but it was in, you know, a rougher side of tine, um, to where, you know, Where most of my church friends were that I was making at church. They didn't live in that side of tine. Uh, um, and you know, so stuff like that, I was a bit like, oh, this feels harder because I see MCN in my church life with, you know, with the church family. That were taken us under their wing and being really kind to us and having us for barbecues and, you know, like having play dates and all that kind of stuff. I was seeing all of this. Like, they've got a pool and they've got two TVs and they have a fridge full of soda. And then I was kind of going back. A little apartment in this rough ER, neighborhood. And like, we were fine. Like there was nothing available to us. We were doing. Okay. Yeah. It still felt like that little.

Gabby: Oh, you like that stuff as a kid? You

Mel: do, don't you? Yeah, I definitely experienced that for sure. Um, and do you know what part of that? I, I think it wasn't really until. My parents kind of later in life, more established in Canada that it really felt like we were living that kind of middle-class Canadian lifestyle, right? Yeah. Yeah. Because they've made the sacrifice of. Not establishing themselves ongoing in one place and yeah. And having an adventure and tick and their kids to another country, which, which comes at a cost financially. And it comes at a cost in terms of like, you know, the things that you're able to accumulate or like establish as a adult and stuff. Um, and I always really respected that. You know, I didn't always, I didn't always really respect that. I do respect that NOI and that they chose. The adventure over. Yep. Felt like stability. And, um, I mean, it was still stable, but you know, I know

Gabby: exactly what you mean. And I think that is so to, I think it would be kind of cool to talk about this experience in more generalized terms. Because I think that's kind of what interests people as well. Like, so when you do make this huge family shift to another culture, another country you are, and my parents did the same thing. We sold our house in the states. You know, we lost that equity, like a house that would have been worth so much more when by the time we came back, you know, the kind of sold it up. We're like, yeah, we're trading it for this adventure that we feel like we, you know, want to have and it's experience we want our kids to have. Um, and that is kind of the cost of, of living overseas and, you know, yeah. It's just, it's, there's nothing wrong with it and it can be a completely great way to live. But I think the idea that you kind of can have both as, maybe not super realistic.

Mel: Okay. No. When you're working for charities,

Gabby: no, like, like our parents, for sure. But I mean, even still, like, I think, you know, um, like even with Chris and I w trying to. We're trying to live in two countries at once to a certain extent, um, with, you know, we're not, we spend most of our time in the states because that is where most of our work is. Um, however, we still have a home over there and we're still trying to, like, we have so many conversations that come down to like really practical. Details of like, so how do you, the life in two countries, like straddling two countries, it's hard and it's expensive. Like, you know, even when you're not working for charity, even, you know, when you're just a normal person. So I don't know. It's a lot. Yeah. And there are sacrifices and it's not, it's not always, um, It's not always easy, but I was going to ask you, so like, yeah, we got this question a small handful of times, and I kind of wonder, like, even as I was prepping for this episode, I was like, why is this an interesting topic to people? You know? And I wanted to know your thoughts and why you think people want to know about this?

Mel: I think it's interesting maybe to know how living in two different places, shapes you as a person. I mean, I definitely feel like it has, it has for sure. And I've said that before in this podcast, but, I really, I definitely feel like it lifted me out of what could have been quite a one minded version of life and give, gave me a lot more, uh, variety of people and culture and you know, places to see and you know, all of that. Um, but I also wonder if people, you know, maybe people are interested in that because it's maybe something, yeah. They're thinking about it for themselves, for their own families, you know, whether what the impact is of that that might have on their kids or their family life. And I think it's really, it's really tough. It's a really tough coal. And, you know, I often think about how that felt for my parents. Haven't like leaving all of their family. Um, and I think in some ways they were, it was absolutely fine. They had chosen kind of a different path from their families in lots of ways anyway. Um, and although our families are really close, I didn't really, we didn't really live that close to each other in Northern Ireland anyway. So, um, but it was, uh, it was a big move and I think maybe people are interested in. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Like if, what that's like. Yeah. Are you saying.

Gabby: I, I mean, I would say similarly, I think one thing I think is super interesting and I don't know what your experience was while you were in Canada, but every time I've traveled to a new country and lived there. You always end up with like this ex-pat community, right. Where it's like, oh, like we went into this Pakistan. It was like anyone who was from somewhere else that wasn't news, Pakistan suddenly were your family, like, not because the, not only because people inspect sun were not friendly or whatever, they just got you on another level. And that level of being that you're not from there. Right. Cause everyone else is from there. So like, even if they were from, from Germany or France or England or. India. Like even like some of my close friends were from Turkey and it wasn't because our homes were anything alike. It was just because we had experienced this huge upheaval to a new country. And similarly, when I think about it now, I think that that experience has shaped me so much where I feel most at home with people who aren't. At home. So like I'm married a foreigner. Hmm. I married a foreigner who is currently living overseas. Like 50% of my Nashville community is from another country. Like, like sometimes I feel like I'm like in little Ireland and within Nashville, like, and you see it here all the time. Like we have a ton of people from Australia, a ton of people from the UK. Um, and they're all friends with each other.

Mel: There isn't, there is a gravitational pole isn't there in that way. And I find that absolutely not so much in Canada. Um, but I definitely find that when I lived in London, that that was, that was such a, I mean, there's, there's barely anyone know that listen that's from. Right. But that definitely felt like. It made it feel more like home to know that other people weren't from there. Um, and, and we kind of sought each other out and yeah, it was, it's a really, it's a really unique experience. And I think like living overseas, I wonder, I was thinking about this as well. Like, did you find that there were parts of home as in like the states when you were in Pakistan, that you kind of glamorized a little bit in your head? When you were away from it?

Gabby: Gosh. Um, I'm sure there, there was I, to be fully honest, I never wanted to move as a kid. So. Everyone's experience is different with this. Even within my family, our experiences are different, but I was old enough to like have an opinion and my opinion was that I didn't want to move. And so I spent a lot of my time glamorizing the states, but as an adult, now I look back and I wouldn't trade my experience for anything, because I feel like it has shaped. So much, it's given me such a global perspective. I've been to so many countries that I would have never been to, um, and gotten to experience them. Like I did so much traveling in Europe and Thailand and, you know, just like that Russia, like there's so even just like the value add of like growing up, speaking another language, um, I'm not saying those are like the penultimate experiences a human can have. I just really value them in my life. And, um, yeah, I don't know. And I think a lot of that experience has shaped how I like the decisions I've made as an adult, you know, a hundred percent. And even my friends, like, like you live overseas, like I think a lot of people would think that kind of a friendship, isn't it. An option. Whereas now, like in your face, it can never get away,

Mel: but also in your face to those people who think that

Gabby: Literally, it was like, yes, you're a Marco polo. Like your face is on my Marco polo every day and I can never get away.

Mel: And

Gabby: it's not enough. We have to

Mel: record a podcast too. No, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do. Yeah. I agree with that. Like it's, it's, it's a beautiful thing. I think. If you're able to, it's a hugely privileged thing to be able to leave the place that you live in and explore for sure. Yeah. Oh yeah. Um, and, but, you know, like it's, it's, it definitely is something that I would recommend to other people as, and I think. The experience of moving across, uh, across the world to a different place is totally different now than it was in the nineties. When we were, when our parents were doing that, um, you know, there's, there is much more of a kind of global fail wherever you go. And lots of, you know, in those big, big places that people tend to go to Australia and New Zealand and stuff. Um, but I, I just remember when we were in Canada, Uh, uh, but kind of down the line of having settled in and stuff, just being like really glamorized and like, you know, the snacks that I loved at home, like oh, for what it was like in our straight or, um, yeah, all that kind of stuff that just, I guess your mind, your mind does as a way of like preserve and protect and ear memories and things, you know? Um, but, um, Yeah, it's I, I don't, I don't regret it. I think my parents were super brave for doing that. Um, and I'm grateful for what it's instilled in me. And I hope to instill in my kids in some, in some way, cause I'm never getting Dave to move to another country, but, and I don't know that I want to, but you know, I feel like there's, there's wisdom that they can glean from my experience as well and, um, Italy and all of that. And then I guess, I want to know for you Gabs. What's the, like, what does home, what does, what does that feeling of home or that sense of home? Or where does that come from? For you? What, what is that?

Gabby: Gosh, this is a very complicated question for me. Exactly. I mean, that is a big part of it is like who you're with and your, the family culture that you create, um, really becomes so anchoring. I think sometimes when you, when you uproot your family and move somewhere, That whole family culture becomes extremely important and it was definitely important to me growing up. And it is, continues to be a big part of, you know, what I consider to be home today. Um, I will say it's weird though, because while I kind of always have a bit of wanderlust. Cooking on the back burner of my life at all times. I also, I really romanticize the idea of having a home that like, and I find myself getting really anxious, even like with like Danny, um, where I'm like, I just want to like have us a physical location space that like is going to be. The his childhood house and home, like, and even when I think about like the way that I decorate our house or the decisions we make that are just physical assets decisions, I am always thinking of, well, the reason I want to do this is because I want to create this like memory for him. That just feels super positive. And, um, I don't know. Hmm. I don't know. That's

Mel: so loving, so lovely, but I'm even thinking about like, we like me and my brother are so like, my brother's an underground for as well, so he's right. Like attached to nostalgia and the idea of creating that and like everything, everything, he loves it. He loves to like, make everything really memorable and like special. And, um, but we have like, Attachment to you. All of the homes that we lived in physical homes, you know, and like we, in fact, our very first childhood home, He had one or two before me, but before I came along, but like, it came up for sale in the market. And the time that I live in NY came up for sale recently. And it was just, you know, we just sat and like looked at the estate agent page and the pictures. And like, we were like, oh, remember that door in that hatch and that, oh, that was your bedroom and dah, dah, dah. Um, so I don't know. I think to attach a feeling of home to a place is a bit Flaten because you can interchange that, that feeling of connection with anywhere. Um, and it's, it's largely about like, I think comfort where you are, you know, the sense of home to me is a comfort in the people, a comfort in like knowing, knowing my surroundings, a comfort in that. The atmosphere, the accessibility, a comfort in the relationships. I guess that's what home feels like to me. I probably should say some sort of like, I mean, home is really like, you just have home for your, like, in yourself, in your heart.

Gabby: Listen girl, accent

Mel: that I just said. And like home is like, you have to create home inside yourself. But I mean, there is an element of that that's true as well, is that you kind of carry that sense of. Content contented comfort. Yeah. You've got to create that insight and I reckon, yeah.

Gabby: Yeah. I agree. Yeah.

Mel: I, so, you know, multiple cultures and homes and all of that two thumbs up from, from me and Gabby conclusion, for sure. Yeah.

Gabby: Yeah, there are trade-offs but we have enjoyed them personally.

Mel: Absolutely. Um, thanks guys for asking that question. I hope that we've, you know, obviously we only ever speak from our own experience, but maybe that yeah, maybe that resonates with some of you as well that have also grown up in similar experiences. Um, Before we finish. I want to make sure that we don't miss out on another call out to, uh, to send us your, your thoughts, your stories, your experience of purity culture, and what that was like for you, if that has affected you. And, um, as you've evolved and grown, um, we'd love to hear it so we can, we can include it. Include your voice. Your story in our, in our episode. Um, so please do feel free to send us emails at hello@makinganeffortpodcast.com, voice notes, emails, all the rest of it. We welcome it. Thank you so much for all of those that have sent them through. Ready. All right, till next time. Thanks guys. Bye bye. Um,