Episode 19: What Does Rest Really Look Like?

This episode is sponsored by the sustainable jewellery company Ana Luisa. Check out www.analuisa.com/makinganeffort to get 10% off your purchase today!

This week on the pod we’re talking about how we define rest and what activities we keep in our “rest toolkits”. If you’ve been feeling burned out or stressed, settle in with a wee cuppa tea and listen.

Part of how we redefine rest is by recognising that sometimes the things that energise us aren’t things that are considered traditionally “restful”— it’s not all candles and bubble baths (although we’re fans of both!)

The pandemic has depleted us in more than one way, especially when we consider how many of us haven’t been able to do the things that energise us and help us rest.

Gabby mentions Andy Puddicombe and the Headspace App, and also his book Get Some Headspace: 10 Minutes Can Make All the Difference as a resource that’s been helpful to her.

We each name some of the things/activities in our own toolkits that help us rest.

We’d love to hear what you guys keep in your rest toolkits as well. Listen to the episode and comment below and let us know how you rest.

>>> Click here to read the computer generated transcript (note that the transcript isn't perfect)

Mel: Welcome back to the making an effort podcast, the podcast where you get to drop in on a conversation with two pals, discussing all the things that we're making an effort with. And some of the things we're just not. And. Hi, Gabby. Hi. Hi, Gabby's got hay fever. She's all. She's sniffily

Gabby: um, it's at the point where I'm trying to figure out if it's allergies or legitimate sickness, but I'm powering on like it's just allergies because that's what moms tell themselves. It's just a, I'll just

Mel: take a Piriton. It'll be fine.

Gabby: Exactly.

Mel: Babble on. No, I'm good. Um, well it feels like a nice segue to then tell you what we're going to talk about today, which is the idea of rest and burn out and all of the, the ways that we find rest or don't and what that's maybe look like for us. Yeah. Huh? Yeah.

Gabby: I mean, I am I'm at the stage in life right now. With everything that we've got going on, where I look forward to my weekends, religious, I know everyone looks forward to their weekends, but like they are, they are my, my, my holy grail. I don't know. It's just that. And I have them planned out in advance because I enjoy, yes, I do. Like there's some room for it's like I schedule. Free time into that or not free time, but like there's some variability that's allowed, but I schedule that, that in. If that makes sense, it's like Saturday random stuff can come up on a Saturday, but if it's Sunday, No. Yeah. Sundays are sacred and not because they're the Lord's day, but because I don't let anyone touch my Sunday. Hmm. And there's a reason for that. And the reason is I I've had to like learn that I can't, I can't do stuff on a Sunday and then function on a Monday.

Mel: Yeah. I feel that. Do you feel like you're good at rest at resting? Uh,

Gabby: that's a very long

Mel: take your time.

Gabby: I'm okay. At rest. And do you think you're good at rest?

Mel: Um, I think that I've got, I've gotten better at it. Um, but I used to, and I think whenever you run your own business, it's really hard to like, Have those boundaries, but I have become a little bit more hard ruthless about stopping and switching off and on that kind of thing. But I guess is what you define as rest, right? Like, or what failed. And this is a thing like is rest when you have, you know, you take a nap is rest getting enough sleep is rest. Like just. Being still. Yeah. Is that how we do? Is that how we define rest? I think it's, I think it's pretty parcel.

Gabby: It is. And actually the whole reason why this conversation topic came up for us. Cause we were talking about it with our Patreon members and they brought up that they're tired of the narrative that, um, rest needs to be, needs to be a vacation. Um, and they were just talking about wanting to identify ways that they can rest in their normal lives. So they're recharged without going on holiday because holidays aren't, you know, accessible to everyone and you don't always get to have it on a holiday when you need one as well.

Mel: And sometimes holidays are not restful. As you may have heard in our previous episode of like holidays. It's true. It's true. Yeah. Especially if you've got. Young children as well. I think holidays, you know, your expectations of holidays need to be slightly different, so it isn't always gonna equate to, to rest. And so that's why I wonder if we need to each have our own, you know, little toolkit of things that make us feel rested.

Gabby: Yeah. I mean, well, okay, so what's in your toolkit and then maybe I don't have a defined toolkit. In my head.

Mel: I don't know if I have a defined toolkit. I definitely feel like what recharges me is. Um, not having to talk to anybody for a significant amount of time.

Gabby: Oh my goodness. I know. So

Mel: yeah. I love, I love everyone. I love everyone. I love

Gabby: you all this sort of thing that you say when you don't love everyone. It's not really love you. I do.

Mel: I love you. But, um, on these conditions that you leave me alone for a bit, um, I'm talking about my family, you know, like as an yeah, so, so Dave and I are on a very mutual beautiful reciprocal, um, bedtime routine, uh, like split. So we do night a bite, um, and see those nights where I don't have to put the kids to bed because it's a whole thing. The whole, the seeds of putting the kids to bed thing, and honestly, Uh, talk about burnout. See, by the time I get both my kids to bed, I come, I come downstairs and I look like I have played like some sort of sport because some sort of sport I can think of one. I couldn't think of the sport. names

Gabby: cricket.

Mel: I honestly, the first, the first one that came to mind was netball. And I don't even like, I look like I played a game of netball. Oh

Gabby: gosh. I'm really glad that you didn't say well, I'm glad you did say

Mel: that, but anyway, it is a whole thing, so yeah. Um, So we take a turn, a bite and see the nights whenever it's my night to not put the kids to bed, I am just like, and sometimes it gets early in earlier and earlier that I'm like, and Dave and I both do this where we feel like it's our cutoff time and then it's our night to ourselves. So sometimes we'll be like, It will be like half five. And Dan's like, uh, yeah. So I was thinking about taking a drive out for a bit and I'm like, ah, Nope, we still have to like seven o'clock where it's seven. You're still on duty here. And then, and then I'll take over for my night to put them to bed. But yes, when it's my night, I'm just like, do not ask me for a thing. Like do not. Come near me, do not even look at the television. Like you have anything to do with it because I need, I need you to all go away for a while. Um, and also I love you.

Gabby: I love that you guys have that and that you have worked it out between yourselves, that you get to kind of. Give the other person a break like that. I think that's really good.

Mel: So in terms of like traditional daily, stepping back and claiming some time for yourself so that you can rest that that is a, that's a non-negotiable for me is those every other days. But I think that it doesn't have to be like that either like that doesn't necessarily have to be. When I rest, you know, I feel, my dad actually talked to me about something a few years ago about the difference between being busy and being hurried. Hm. Yeah, I thought, I thought it was really helpful to distinguish that, you know, sometimes. We have seasons where we're really busy, but that doesn't mean that we have to be hurried, like almost like a hurry as a mindset of like, you know, that kind of overwhelm and panic and, um, yeah. Feeling like you have to do all the things imminently and all of that kind of stuff, which, which I'm sure, just feel really for a prolonged period of time will absolutely lead you to burnout. And it felt like a bit of relief to hear that from him as well, because I think it's actually okay to be busy sometimes it's just very normal.

Gabby: You can still be present within it and you can still have clarity and also be busy. And be working from your strengths and not out of a place of burnout and exhaustion and rushing through things. Yeah. Ideally I don't, I'm trying to think now, like, have I had seasons like that where I feel, I don't think I can sustain that for very long, but there have definitely been seasons where. I've been like, that was a good week. We did well that week, everyone, like we, you know, like we got everything that needed to be done, done. Everyone was, we S we fit in a date night. We like, you know, whatever.

Mel: Um, like I felt like a complete

Gabby: awake. Yeah. And no one felt no one came to the, I mean, we we'd get tired at the end of the week, but no one felt. Just stressed and overwhelmed and like, it was a negative, if that makes sense.

Mel: Yeah. I think one of the things that I'm always like w w raises a red flag for me, less than maybe to other people, is when I feel like people need to justify. Themselves by talking about how busy they are Jermaine. So like, you know, when we talk about this idea of glorifying being busy as like the landmark human. Production output type of thing. Um, and actually it's, you know what I find that really tiring to lesson two. Like, I don't really like, I want, I want you to tell me about what's making you feel energized or what's making you feel curious or what's settle in your soul rather than all the frantic things that you're doing. And. Yeah, it doesn't make me think any less of you. It makes me really worry about you. Yeah. Yeah. Art doesn't make me not any less of you. It also doesn't make me think less of you. It doesn't make me think any more of you either, but yeah. Um, I see that tendency coming up a lot with, with women that I work with sometimes, you know, and I wonder if sometimes it makes us just feel like. Well, I'm valuable. I don't know.

Gabby: I think that's, that's part of it. I'm trying to think for myself anyway, like when I feel like I've had a really busy, productive season, there is a sense of like, I I'm, I'm putting, putting almost like putting my mark on the world, you know, like I'm doing something impactful. And I think there is, I even catch myself in this now where I don't think of rest that way as much, like I think of rest as what I have to do to get to the thing that makes a difference, as opposed to seeing rest as part of the thing that makes a difference in the world.

Gabby:Explain what you mean, you know what I mean? Like, so like you've got doing. You've got your, you know, whether that's, and like you can attach all sorts of meaning to that. So you can attach like, like this is my purpose. This is like, what I'm supposed to do. This is like my creative venture. This is a thing that the world is going to remember before, whether it's parenting or business or. Create your creative art or whatever, that's the thing that's going to be my legacy. And then rest is the thing that I go away so that I'm recharged to do that thing as opposed to seeing rest as part of my legacy and my impact on the world.

Mel: Right. So we can, uh, go, go, go. And then we, we kind of come back to the battery source and then go Google.

Gabby: I even just think of like, we, we do think of it. I'm going to just kind of externally processing year. But I think I do tend to think of it as like a recharging station. But what if it's not just a recharging? Like what if the recharging is part of the, the impact? Not just because it fuels the thing that you do, but because it's worthy and good in and of itself. Does that make

Mel: sense? Yeah, it does. And so this is something that I. I wonder I'd like to buy it sometimes, um, and do a lot of work on and my business as well is the idea that sometimes rest just isn't accessible to us, um, in the way that we might like it. Right. Or in the, in the nature that we would want it to be. Um, and so I wonder if, truly to kind of. Care for ourselves. Well, we have to think deeper than just the kind of task driven side of rest as like to rest becomes a task.

Gabby: Yes, exactly.

Mel: Um, so what if, instead of making this rest thing, like another. Slot in your diary, right. That we actually look at ourselves as these whole human beings that are fed and energized and field by lots of different things. Yeah. So, so that risk becomes less of a task and more a bite, um, like. Integrate in certain elements of things that make us feel alive and restful into our end to our already really full and busy lives. Right. So like for me, something that makes me feel really restful or like, like, um, kinda nourishing myself is, um, The opportunity to the opportunity to connect. The people that I love with each other genuine, genuinely thought is, or people that I like. I love connecting people with other people. So that, that kind of, if that is something that I, I get to do in my everyday life, which it often is, and in my personal life. Yeah. Like that, isn't something that drains my energy. That's something that really fills me up. So it doesn't kind of take out of my yeah. Energy pile. That's amazing. Like if we understand, I wonder if we understood ourselves a bit better in terms of like, what is core to us? What is essential nourishment to us? Um, that we could. Re understand the idea of yeah. Of breast and how to look after ourselves a bit better. Yeah.

Gabby: I want to tell you about a jewelry brand I've been wearing for almost three years now called Anna Luisa and how we're partnering with them to offer you 10% off their pieces. I was first drawn to Anna Louisa because they always seem to have the exact piece I was looking for at super affordable prices. When I did a little research, I was so excited to discover that not only is Anna Lewis, a woman owned. Brand, but it's also a brand dedicated to sustainability. So today we're partnering with them to offer you 10% off your purchase. They actually release new jewelry collections every Friday and pieces start at just $39. At this point, most of my jewelry is made by them. I especially have loved slowly collecting their chain necklaces and layering them to even make my sweat pant, wearing an addiction. Look a little more chic. So if you're in the market for a few new pieces and are just wanting to choose a company that's gentle on the earth and your wallet, check out Ana Luisa, that's spelled a N a L U I S a and one more time, a N a L U I S a go to Anna louisa.com forward slash making an effort or check out the link in our episode description for 10% off your book. We're just today. I think for me, A good conversation is super recharging either with a friend or with Chris, my husband, or, you know, a family member, a good conversation, always leaves me feeling more ready to tackle life, uh, than if I don't have one. I feel like 2020 was a big revealer for me. And I'm sure it was for everyone. But, you know, you had a lot of things that, I mean, we were all stripped of a lot of stuff, you know, I think it really made me kind of reevaluate where like the source, like being recharged and what that means and living out of a restful state. Um, I think that I, like, I know this is going to sound, so, um, Maybe predictable, but meditation was a huge part of how both Chris and I survived 2020. Um, he kind of got, um, turned on to meditation through his therapist and then was like, you gotta try this. This is like really changing the game for me. And so I did, like, I read, I read, um, and I'll put it in the show notes. I want to say it's called it's by the guy who created Headspace. Um, Andy Puddicombe. Um, he is fantastic at he's a, um, Buddhist monk, but he just really breaks, um, meditation down in such an easy way. And you can download his app, but also. His book is really good, too. And for like, understanding why we need meditation and what purpose it serves for our mental health. Yes, it's called, was most called meditation and mindfulness get some head space. Um, and I'll put it in the show notes, but I read that book and it, it taught me ways that I could meditate. And integrate meditation in my day to day, that kind of just like reset the slate. Um, so one of my favorite things to do at the height of lockdown, when we couldn't go anywhere, couldn't see anything couldn't ask for a babysitter, couldn't go out for dinner and you're just stuck in your house day off your day with your family

Mel: and your marker polo, Marco polo.

Gabby: Um, So I would go on walks, like many of us did. Um, but I think before kind of before discovering meditation and mindfulness, I used to like listen to a podcast or call a friend or listen to a really good album, which those things can be restful and they're good. Um, but for me, they just ended up adding to the noise of my day, um, in that specific season that I was in. So I started meditating on my walks and what you do. I mean, there's, there's a lot to it and I don't, you know, I'm not a pro and I probably, as I'm talking, I'm like, I should be doing this again. Um, I don't know why I stopped, but I used to go on walks road, like literally leave my phone at home. So I didn't have the meditate or the temptation to interrupt my meditation. And I would just start walking and pick. An object in the distance, like a telephone pole or a tree or a Bush or whatever, and just try and look at it without looking away. Um, so without like you can blink, you can relax, you don't even breathe through it. It's not like you're having a staring competition, but the challenge was don't look off to the side. Don't look at the cloud. Don't look at your feet at the ground. Just walk. Okay. And breathe and focus your mind on that object in the distance. And it's, uh, it's basically like exercising the muscle of your brain to be able to just focus on something that is not, it's not a thought, it's not an emotion. It's just a tree in the distance. And my only objective is to. Look at it and reach it and not look away. And it w if you try this, it's actually fairly hard. It's kind of like, not in a non restful way. Um, I found it very centering. I found it very, just kind of like a recalibrated, my brain. It gave me something to work on that wasn't work and. It just kind of re like cleaned the slate. I don't know if that makes sense.

Mel: Of course it makes sense. Yeah. And I think that's like, I would often do that when I'm Merlin. So, um, be like, there's a lamppost up ahead, and I'm going to run to that lamppost. I'm going to look at it the whole time and I'm going to focus on that and not. Uh, not the fact that I hit this. I mean, yeah, yeah. Um, but that makes perfect sense. And it's funny. I was even just thinking, you know, the whole 20, 20 stuff. Um, it really, it really redefined the idea of tiredness and burnout and the importance of rest because. Well, I mean, we weren't going anywhere and you know, I mean, a majority of people ended up working from home. So there was there wasn't a massive physical component to our tiredness. It, you know, I think a lot of people started to make the connection during 2020, between that element of, um, Emotional and mental tiredness and noticing that because the physical, tired tiredness wasn't, wasn't really available because we weren't doing anything. I mean, majority of the world, I know there were a lot of people who still were working and still were having to graft on our behalf. Um, but yeah, which, which kind of makes sense that we would. Absolutely need to talk about what rest really is. It's not just lying down when your body feels tired, but there's a mental, emotional, spiritual component to it as well. Um, and it's all connected. And, and that's why I think if we're going to talk about what rest looks like in a sustainable way, that's not just like we go, go, go until we can't go anymore. And then we recover. That's not Rast that's recovery. Yeah.

Gabby: Yeah. There is difference between those. Oh my goodness. Wow. Yeah. So I mean to cut you off. No, that's okay. I had a personal revelation. It's like, that's so good,

Mel: but yeah, that's not, that's not rest. That's, that's kind of, um, feeling the repercussions of that. You know, rest is, is deeper. And I think it's so personal and it has to be an opportunity for us to discover what, what rest really feels like in our systems and in our bodies for us. You know? So for me, that's the element of movement, right? So like when I do yoga or when I do. Uh, class or what I do, but you know, even a run, there's nothing restful about it physically, but yet it makes me feel rested yep. In my, in my head space. Yup. Um, and so, you know, it's our traditional conception of, of all of that just, I think, has turned on its head a little bit. And that's only a good thing because we're starting to kind of tie up. All, uh, all, uh, all of the parts of our being are connected that we had just not realized, I think as much before 2020,

Gabby: I completely agree. I would say exercise is a big part of my rest regime or if, yeah, if I was built, if I am building a toolkit, I would say physical activity. Meditation and scheduling out rest time and advance are probably the three things and con good conversation. The four things that I know for a certain exist in my wrist.

Mel: Yeah. Yeah. So when in my work I call these your core nutrients. Ooh, okay.

Gabby: To worry about that.

Mel: Um, So it's. So I do this exercise with clients, um, where, so this is free coach and folks. Um, it was called Patrion. He can, um, where we go through this exercise, and this is something that I learned in my coach and train and, um, where I get you to I'll get you to. Write down kind of three or four experiences or times in your life where you felt really in flow, like really so much like yourself. So, um, yeah, like energized a life and then an often people have to go back years to whatever shows up is fine. Um, like some people are like, oh, it was when I was. In my high school play that I felt so like myself in not, or it was this, um, physical challenge that I took part in, or it was when I led this group of people in this thing, or, um, it was during childbirth or some of these kinds of experiences where they just like, felt completely alive and. Um, uh, energized. And then what we do is kind of go into that experience and kind of dilute what it was about that experience that made them feel alive. So not the doing thing of it, but the, the essence of it. Right. So, or like the, yeah, the essence of it. So if it was. Your high school play that made you feel alive. What was it about that it wasn't, that you were acting, maybe it was that you had, you know, that feeling of, of seeing something come together or being in community through that whole experience or, you know, what was the components that really brought that feeling to you? Um, and then noticing. Where the, where those things are missing in your, you know, so then you develop a sole list. Like you kind of went through there of things that, um, are almost like you would take a supplement for your body. Yeah. You would, these are your core nutrients for you to feel fully alive. Right? So you, you, you start to then be able to say that. Actually, um, and for a lot of the clients I've worked with over the last year, that that's been a really difficult exercise because a lot of the things that have made them fail alive, they have not been able to do. Yeah. Right. So, um, bring people together or whatever it is. Um, They haven't been able to do that. And that's, and they're kind of having these moments of going, oh, I get why I feel like shit, because the things that are essential to my, to the nourishment of me as a person in my being that make me feel full and alive, I haven't been able to bring those into my life in any way. And so it then becomes less of a task to do less type of self care and rest. And instead this kind of creative. Opportunity to integrate those things into your life. That's already full. Right? I did a little episode of my other podcasts briefly talking about this as well. So, um, I think that's a really important thing for us all to understand about ourselves. So when, especially whenever traditional rest just doesn't feel available.

Gabby: Yeah. Yeah. Oh my goodness. That's amazing. I feel like that would be such a. An incredible exercise to do with like your spouse or your roommate or whoever you're having to share a physical space with your kids on the regular so that you can understand each other better that way, because obviously what's restful and energizing for you. Isn't necessarily going to be for me. And how do we make space for each other's energizing and recharging and. All of that. Um, may how do we make room for it all. I feel like that would be such a good exercise to do with the people you live with. I dunno.

Mel: Yeah, it is. It's really cool. It's, it's really like a revelation to some, to some people when they go through that, that they, you know, they realized stuff about themselves that they maybe have, uh, S just like sidelined as well. That's not. And that's not something I can keep up in my everyday life, but it's not really a boat that, so it's not a bite someone going, okay. So I should look for a theater, grape to do adult plays with, because I really liked doing that in high school. Do you know what I mean? It's not about that. It's about going, huh? It's really, it feels like really vital for myself, for my being to you. Be be part of something big with a group of other people that I get to do that with regularly. I wonder, I wonder, is there an opportunity in some way to integrate something like that into my, you know, and so that could be joining some sort of group or being part of some sort of group that you're already in. And just seeing that as the energizing thing, rather than. Adding to yeah. Yeah.

Gabby: Oh, that's so good. I feel like I, I need to go away and actually think about the question, like what

Mel: I'll send you. I'll send you, it I'll send you the I'll send you the full rundown. It's really good. I would

Gabby: love that. I feel like I would love to work through that. Um, No, this is all, this is all really good, so, okay. Can I know more about what's in your, your toolkit? Like, so you ha you said bringing people together and working out is restful. What else?

Mel: Um, let's see, um, restful and if we are weighed using the redefined version of rest, yes. All right. So what's core, what's the core nutrient for me. Yep. Okay. Um, what's that core nutrient for me. And I think that these also shift by the way, I think there's also really evolve as we, as we change, um, is creating. Beautiful spaces for people to feel welcome, uh, is one. So like aesthetics are really restful thing for me. Like I, you know, if, when, and not just like when my home is tidy, but like when we, we have the opportunity to even, even just to have people at our table or like, In some way to kind of welcome people into a beautiful setting is there is a really like core, energizing thing for me. Um, there's that, um, when I fail, like I am. Motivating people for a bigger cause that has, is a very energizing and restful thing for me to be in that space.

Gabby: So that actually really leads into my question for you because I can think of things that really energize me and maybe I'm getting energized and joy mixed up, but regardless where I. Where I like. So if it's a very physical thing that I kind of feel physically exhausted after and need, like old-school rest to recover from. So like, I'm thinking of right now, specifically, this is my actual, I love hosting dinner parties. That is like, if I could just do one thing for the rest of my life, I was just so

Mel: good at it.

Gabby: Thank you. I love having people over and like having a menu that I think about all week and I plan towards, and I buy a couple bottles of nice wine and I buy candles and I like, I love that it is. So if I couldn't do that anymore, I would just be like, what's the point? Like I, and I do find it really energizing and I find it creatively inspiring. And, um, Yeah, I should. It's just, it's so special to me, but usually after I have people over and this doesn't take away at all from the delight of doing it. So, you know, if you've been to my house and I've done that for you, this isn't a complaint. This is just usually I am. So do you love everybody? I do. I love everybody, but I'm kind of like physically depleted, but mentally and emotionally full. So I still like Chris, we always get in like a little, not arguments, but like he always kind of like, I love that you love to do this and I, I want to support it. And. I love eating your food and it's great. Like let's, I love having people over, but the one thing he doesn't love is that I am like exhausted afterwards because I put so much into it. You know what I mean? Like, and I'm like, I just want to sleep for 12 hours or, I mean, if it's like a big party, if it's just having people around for dinner, I mean, That can still be work, but I don't need to like recover for a whole day. Um, but does that make sense to like, I'm trying to like find the balance of like, yeah, I don't know. Does that make sense? Does my question make sense?

Mel: We have these, we have these massive physical capacities that, but just because something energizes us internally, um, doesn't mean it can't, it doesn't come with the repercussion of. Uh, external or physical capacity being met. Um, but I think that, that I would, and I would go as far to say that the recovery time from a physical often from physical energy spend can be shorter than the. Recovery time. Oh, definitely an emotional or spiritual or, or mental energy drain. And then it has the, it has more capacity to, for us to stay in that dream state, which is why I think knowing what energizes us is really important because we can recover. Physically much with much more resilience because we know what to do with our bodies. Right. We stop, we start moving them. We lay down, we close her eyes, but we don't know how to stop our minds often. And so it does, it does take a lot longer, I think, for us to. Recognize when we've reached our mental and emotional or spiritual or whatever capacity. Yeah. Um, and to recover and return to health in that.

Gabby: That's so good. Yeah. I, I mean, I think that's definitely true and I don't think you in mind me sharing this, but like Chris experienced extreme burnout. As many of us did, Chris is my husband, um, in 2020. And I remember a big part of his redefined rest was gene D is like, Hour to two hour long physical grueling workouts. And like he needed to have it every day. Like he needed to go like, go on a really intense run or go like work out in the backyard.

Mel: Um, Yes. Feeling par of his body was course nutrient. Yes.

Gabby: So like he was physically depleted, but mentally he was so rested. So I totally agree with what you're saying. Like there kinda needs to be space for both, but the, I agree like the mental. Requires so much more feeding and such a longer recovery time than the physical.

Mel: Absolutely. It's bigger and better it's because we don't, we haven't, we've continued to separate those things and not see the mental and emotional side of things as important to prioritize. Yeah. Yeah. And to, and to understand, and to develop tools, to be able to. Nurture it and look after it, like we would a body that's depleted. Yeah.

Gabby: And I think people are getting better at that. And as mental health becomes more of a recognized. Like phenomena, I guess. I think people are getting better at that, but yeah, it can be hard to know specifically what that looks like in your day to day.

Mel: And can I also just, I mean, I am absolutely doubling down on that. My other podcast episode, I love it. Do it. Um, So I have this other, I'm going to just tell, tell you. Yeah. In case people that are listening, don't know, I have this other podcast for my coach and business, and it's called courage is colon. And they're just short this, I mean, that's nothing like this, like this kind of deep combo,

Gabby: they're short talks. It's way probably I've listened to it. And I love it. I've obviously subscribed. Cause I'm the number one super fan. But, uh, they're very rich. But anyway, no

Mel: waffles. I that's why I need this though. Cause I need the waffle. Um, and what I would say is that, that is this stuff around understanding ourselves and where we deplete and where we are energized is, is part one of a full understanding of how we rest well and look after ourselves. But part two of that is community. Like part two of that is understanding that we have an innate biological Nate to hold an oscillate between autonomy and connection. Yeah. And, uh, but, and so there's this like tipping scale that tends to happen, um, where we think that looking after ourselves as this solo job that is only. For us today. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And actually it's a super unhealthy, and it's super capitalist for us to think that, because that just puts all the, all the onus on this individual to, to know and be able to care for themselves. Um, and that's just, that's just not how we're made of yeah.

Gabby: But I think it takes, I mean, We probably need to wrap this up soon, and this is probably a whole nother conversation, but I think allowing yourself to rest in the company or like be, have rest provided to you by someone else takes so much trust. It's such a vulnerable thing. You know what I mean? Like I, I'm trying to think of who I would allow.

Mel: To take care of you.

Gabby: You had to take care of me as a shortlist and it's not because I don't have people that I love and respect deeply and dearly. It's probably a little bit cause I'm out of practice, but also because it's feels so vulnerable,

Mel: it does, it does feel vulnerable. Um, and I think it should be a short list. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It should be a short list because it does require trust. Unrest, you know, risking someone knowing you don't have, you don't have the space or you're, or you're on the verge of burn a night or whatever is a big, big thing to admit right now, especially, you know, in a habit altogether kind of culture. But, um, but, and I don't, I don't necessarily even, I guess, Maine that. I think community care is reaches further and beyond and all of that, it, it breaches all the way to political stuff. You know, where we, where we advocate and lobby for, uh, you know, systems and policies that make sure that community care. In terms of how we look after each other is more human way more human, um, all the way down to the friends that are gonna show up. Yeah. With a lasagna, you know? Yeah. I think community care there means it means all of those things and not, and I guess at the core, recognizing that when we're, when we realize that we're all connected to each other, that that's. But that's why that's so important. Yeah.

Gabby: Yeah. That's so good. Um, man, well, speaking of rest, uh, we wanted to let you guys know that we are going to be taking the month of June off from recording podcasts. So we're going to wrap up, um, this month and then we're going to take a month off and we're just going to rest and recharge and, um, You know, all of that good stuff and we'll be, we'll be back in July. So, uh, that's just a little PSA for you guys. Um, and do you have anything else you want to add to this episode, Mo?

Mel: No. Just thank you. Thank you for always sticking with us and for listening and for messaging us and you know, all of that. Um, yeah, we, we just really appreciate. People come on back to the space and be on with us. Yeah.

Gabby: It feels like a real privilege and that people trust us with their stories is just so special. And I think I

Mel: love everyone, everyone. All right. Well until next time, guys, we'll talk to you next week. Thanks so much. Bye.